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| Liverpool Champions Leauge Theory | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Dec 20 2007, 12:05 AM (123 Views) | |
| Nokia | Dec 20 2007, 12:05 AM Post #1 |
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#nmnk
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I Remember back in the day of the SS forum when someone commented "Oh it looks like the start of the Champs leauge, time for Liverpool's form to drop" No I saw this and thought "Pfffttt....." But this did stick in the corner of my mind and I decided to look at it. Lets say we go back to 2005 the year we won right? Where did we finish in the Prem? 5th outside the champions leauge spot and fighting for a place in it next season. Then 2006 where we were knocked out in the quarter finals, from then on we hit great form and a record number of clean sheets and ended up finishing 3rd. Now this year we had a fantastic table topping start to the season, until the Champions leauge kicked in and steadily our form started to drop. But we picked are selfs back up again and starting getting much needed wins, but in the Champs leauge we hit rock bottom and need 3 out 3 wins to progress. Since then we got the three wins we needed but including the Chelsea tonight, results domesticly that is three losses on the trot. Is this Liverpool's curse to the Prem? |
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| Jimmymac™ | Dec 20 2007, 12:07 AM Post #2 |
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Inspirational
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i dont think it really tallys up, as lets look at last season, got to the final and finished 3rd, we probably could have done better points wise in the league but we stopped trying once we had a top 4 place sewn up. In the league this year our results have been fine throughout the time when we needed those 3 wins in general. In the three games we have lost one was a screw up at reading, the other two were against chelsea and man united. Our curse isn't really the prem, our curse is basically that we are still not as good as those above us. Whilst we have some great players and we improve each year, so do the teams above us, sometimes to a greater extent. |
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| flak | Dec 20 2007, 11:00 AM Post #3 |
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It's nearly Christmas
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Liverpool never really had the best of squad depth either in those previous years. Maybe that's part of the reason because Rafa was resting his team that he wanted to play in the Champions League and the back-up players weren't good enough. |
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| talkingsense® | Dec 20 2007, 12:17 PM Post #4 |
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football fundamentalist
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Rafa rotation is based on keeping the squad fresher than their rivals and it has paid off! At the end of the season Liverpool have been strong which is great for cup runs but if the PL is already lost, frustrates the fans. It's very difficult to compete on all fronts and the CL is a distraction. I think it's true that Rafa has targeted the CL before the PL but if he knows his squad isn't quite as strong as the rivals winning a cup competition is easier. The PL is almost always won by the best team, it's over 38 games and everyone counts. The seeded teams are expected to qualify for the last 16 of the CL and in the initial league games are sometimes not that important (look at Roma v Utd) so it comes down to doing enough to get into the last 16. You then have 3 two legged ties to negotiate where tactics can play a huge part, win at home, frustrate away and it all comes down to a one off final game. Obviously those last 7 games are very important, glamourous games, but getting a team motivated for them isn't difficult. Application, fitness, skill and of course, luck, all play a part but you don't need the same consistency as you do to win the PL. Liverpool have improved but as Jimmy says so have their rivals. Liverpool fans are desperate for the PL, but until this year you haven't had a team (let alone a squad) capable of really going for it. Utd won last year but strengthened significantly in the Summer, they had to the bar is rising higher and faster every year. The PL remains the most difficult and trying for that makes winning anything else even more of a challenge, it's a competitive world out there. Utd deservedly won the PL last year but by the end of the season were dead on their feet. Chelsea had also pushed hard in the PL but with their bigger squad weren't quite as done in as Utd. Liverpool were much fresher due to squad rotation, it had cost them being competitive in the PL but it meant they made the final of the CL. So if you have the talent of Liverpool who can certainly 'on their day' beat anyone playing the odds leads to you targeting the CL not the PL. By improving the squad this year and listening to the cries of the fans, Rafa has been compromised into giving the PL more of a shot. Doing that though can leave you falling short all over. It's not easy! |
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| treble | Dec 20 2007, 12:59 PM Post #5 |
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The Chosen Juan
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My observation with Liverpool since Rafa took over is as follows. In his first season, livpl were never in the title chase, they got knocked out of the FA Cup, and once they lost in the CC final at the start of 2005 there was only one competition left which they concentrated on and eventually won. In his second season, livpl were once again out of the title chase by xmas, they got knocked out of the CC, and then once they lost to Benfica in the Champs Lg at the start of 2006 there was only one competition left which they concentrated on and eventually won. In his third season, livpl were once again out of the title chase by xmas, they were got knocked out of the CC, and once they were out of the FA Cup at the start of 2007 there was once again only one competition left which they concentrated on and eventually got to the final. There are 4 possible trophies each season that the top 4 can win. But based on all 3 seasons with Rafa it seems as if liverpool almost "cross off" 3 of them by the new year and whatever is left they go hell for leather to win. Now this may be for the reasons that Jimmy says that liverpool are not as good as those above, or that even tho livpl are improving the others around them improve also, OR it could be that Rafa doesn't believe (or doesn't want to believe) that livpl can compete in all competitions and win them all. |
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| talkingsense® | Dec 20 2007, 01:10 PM Post #6 |
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football fundamentalist
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IMO this is the truth, not only can they not go for all, but that the PL, until he strengthened this summer, has always been beyond them. Liverpool have improved so this season he can flirt with the idea that the PL is a posibility. In so doing though he risks falling down elsewhere, so ironically strengthening his squad may make him less likely to win a trophy, how cruel is that? |
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| itsgunnabe11 | Dec 20 2007, 01:11 PM Post #7 |
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ya best protect ya neck
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Not the right attitude to go for jugular in games, Rafa dont like to conceed goals and that holds his team back, Arsenal and Man Utd philosphy is we will out score you and they go for it. Liverpool concentrate on not losin, only team that plays 2 DM when eveyone is fit eg. masch and Alonso or sissoko(gerard on right last season). Rafa would win Seria A not prem though |
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| treble | Dec 20 2007, 01:27 PM Post #8 |
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The Chosen Juan
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Its a shame livpl got knocked out of the CC last night (i know crazy talk from a united fan, but I'll go wash my mouth out after I've posted this
)But I think a good test for livpl would have been if they'd won the CC in the new year. Then I would've liked to have seen rafa's/liverpool's attitude towards the remaining competitions. There could be 2 outcomes, they don't have the mentality to win anything else OR they go on to win another trophy - which would then be the start of something because that would instill a belief in the team that there's no reason why they shouldn't win even more trophies (even the title) the following season. |
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| talkingsense® | Dec 20 2007, 01:34 PM Post #9 |
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football fundamentalist
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Don't you think winning the CL in 2005 should prove that they are winners? whoops I need to wash my mouth out now!
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| itsgunnabe11 | Dec 20 2007, 01:40 PM Post #10 |
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ya best protect ya neck
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Make sure yo both use bleach As a United fan I like it that Liverpool are not able to win league,If only until we overtake them in number of league titles in 4 years(make sure we are clear) then maybe let them have a prem |
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| treble | Dec 20 2007, 01:55 PM Post #11 |
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The Chosen Juan
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Should have done Sense, but I have my own theories on the reasons why it didn't which is based on their route to the final and certain games including the tie against Juventus, but I might cause a bit of controversy with the liverpool fans so I won't go there.... So far as to say it's a cup competition and sometimes it's your time, whereas the same can't be said with the league. HOWEVER, if you can be in more than one cup competition for a certain period of time, even win won like the CC earlier in the season it does show a degree of quality and mental strength in the team not to mention a degree of consistency which livpl can build on to go on and win the league. Aye itsgunnabe10, if only for one season I would love for once just to be able to say to scousers we've won more titles
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