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England Captain A Drug Cheat?
Topic Started: Apr 3 2008, 04:35 PM (823 Views)
loyalroyal
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when was the last time you did something for the first time??
flak
Apr 3 2008, 04:46 PM
Ferdinand never actually failed the test and I seem to recall Sense saying that he actually passed it the next day when he took it.

He's been the best player in an England shirt for a while now so it seemed sensible to try him out as captain.

cocaine can be untraceable within 24hours so just cause he turned up the next day means nothing
According to my calculations the problem doesn't exist
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loyalroyal
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when was the last time you did something for the first time??
flak
Apr 4 2008, 03:31 PM
LoyalRoyal
Apr 4 2008, 12:14 PM
flak
Apr 4 2008, 10:39 AM
LoyalRoyal
Apr 3 2008, 05:25 PM
if he had been playing for any other club other than utd we wouldn't be having this convo as he would not have carried on as a england international

What makes you say this? He has earnt the right to wear the captain's armband since he came back from that ban imo.

cause back then utd were at the hight of there dominance of english football and the F.A didnt have the balls to come down hard on him. all the talk was about the breakaway g14 league and the F.A and premier league were running scared there marketing machine would pull out if the punishment was too harsh.

Was the 8 month ban not hard enough punishment? :unsure: There's players that actually fail drug tests and get shorter bans than that.

I don't remember Joe Cole ever performing that well for England Gooner. :unsure:

imo i dont think 8 months was enough tbh flak 3 years should be the ban for everyone
According to my calculations the problem doesn't exist
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flak
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It's nearly Christmas
LoyalRoyal
Apr 4 2008, 03:32 PM
flak
Apr 3 2008, 04:46 PM
Ferdinand never actually failed the test and I seem to recall Sense saying that he actually passed it the next day when he took it.

He's been the best player in an England shirt for a while now so it seemed sensible to try him out as captain.

cocaine can be untraceable within 24hours so just cause he turned up the next day means nothing

Are you sure? I'm positive they said at the time that any type of drugs would still show up 24 hours later.

Yeah 8 months isn't enough if they actually fail the test but what about in Rio's exceptional circumstance?
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loyalroyal
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when was the last time you did something for the first time??
flak
Apr 4 2008, 04:05 PM
LoyalRoyal
Apr 4 2008, 03:32 PM
flak
Apr 3 2008, 04:46 PM
Ferdinand never actually failed the test and I seem to recall Sense saying that he actually passed it the next day when he took it.

He's been the best player in an England shirt for a while now so it seemed sensible to try him out as captain.

cocaine can be untraceable within 24hours so just cause he turned up the next day means nothing

Are you sure? I'm positive they said at the time that any type of drugs would still show up 24 hours later.

Yeah 8 months isn't enough if they actually fail the test but what about in Rio's exceptional circumstance?

recreational users havent got a prolonged amount in there system so can escape much faster i have been told where jimmy he was a pharmacist any ideas chap??

:rofl: Exceptional circustances... what turning your phone off when you've found out you've missed the test?
According to my calculations the problem doesn't exist
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flak
Apr 4 2008, 03:31 PM
LoyalRoyal
Apr 4 2008, 12:14 PM
flak
Apr 4 2008, 10:39 AM
LoyalRoyal
Apr 3 2008, 05:25 PM
if he had been playing for any other club other than utd we wouldn't be having this convo as he would not have carried on as a england international

What makes you say this? He has earnt the right to wear the captain's armband since he came back from that ban imo.

cause back then utd were at the hight of there dominance of english football and the F.A didnt have the balls to come down hard on him. all the talk was about the breakaway g14 league and the F.A and premier league were running scared there marketing machine would pull out if the punishment was too harsh.

Was the 8 month ban not hard enough punishment? :unsure: There's players that actually fail drug tests and get shorter bans than that.

I don't remember Joe Cole ever performing that well for England Gooner. :unsure:

To put it nicely im not a big fan of chelsea and if i say one of their players is the best for england trust me im not lying i would prefer it was gerrard as i like gerrard but its not its cole
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flak
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It's nearly Christmas
I disagree. The only time he's looked half decent was when he scored that spectacular goal that time. I can't think of him creating or assisting in the build up play very much...always predictable cutting inside too.
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talkingsense®
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As a moderator I have been emailed on this topic.

For the record Rio was tested 24 hours later and passed the test. He also offered the opportunity for the testers to take a hair follicle because apparently drug use, even recreational drugs can apparently show there for quite sometime after any offence.

I am as convinced as anyone can be that Rio did not take drugs, but it can also be argued that missing a drugs test is also cheating. Many athletes have done this to avoid discovery, including that Greek sprinter (the lady one) who has now been awarded one of Marion Jones' gold medals, because Marion Jones has finally admitted cheating. Passing a medal from one cheat to another.

btw, before the Rio situation several players had missed drugs tests without punishment. There may have been many but several admitted that they had, one played for Man City but I can't remember which player that was. This was part of the reason Rio reacted irresponsibly, he didn't think missing it was a big deal. When things came about that it was then Utd acted very arrogantly to dismiss his crimes. This was red rag to a bull to the authorities and Rio's penalty was a huge over reaction, remember 3 players in Italy (including Jip Japp Stam) only got 3 months for testing positive for nandrelone a year earlier.

I think for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs there should be a comparable and consistent stance with all sports people, at the moment internationally in Athletics it's 2 years first offence, lifetime there after. Historically football hasn't suffered much, probably because skill and teamwork have been more important. Now though it is certainly a faster game where athleticism is becoming increasingly important so the temptations will be increasing, especially because there are human growth hormones which are apparently invisible to tests.

As for recreational drug use, I'm sure the clubs are more concerned with this as if anything, certainly over time, this is likely to inhibit performance. Difficult to have different punishments for drug abuse but it is strange that one type can enhance and another restrict athletic performance.

It can be argued that by missing the test, Rio became a drug cheat if you want to be pedantic and follow the letter of the law, but consider this: we have probably all broken speed limits in our time, strictly speaking doing 71 mph on an empty motorway is speeding, so is doing 71mph on a crowded housing estate in the middle of the day. Not the same crime exactly though is it?

Now I'd best get back to work.
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flak
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It's nearly Christmas
talkingsense
Apr 7 2008, 09:38 AM
I think for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs there should be a comparable and consistent stance with all sports people, at the moment internationally in Athletics it's 2 years first offence, lifetime there after. Historically football hasn't suffered much, probably because skill and teamwork have been more important. Now though it is certainly a faster game where athleticism is becoming increasingly important so the temptations will be increasing, especially because there are human growth hormones which are apparently invisible to tests.

I'd agree with that as a suitable punishment. There's no excuses really if the player is caught for a second time. If a player misses the test by accident (or on purpose) then they should take the hair sample or do whatever is needed the next day if it is still going to show up positive.

Mutu was another one of the players that got tested positive (think whilst he was still at Chelsea and they didn't want him after that) but he seems to have turned his game around after coming back from his ban and now plays for one of the top clubs in Serie A.
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RetardedDwarf
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LoyalRoyal
Apr 4 2008, 03:32 PM
flak
Apr 3 2008, 04:46 PM
Ferdinand never actually failed the test and I seem to recall Sense saying that he actually passed it the next day when he took it.

He's been the best player in an England shirt for a while now so it seemed sensible to try him out as captain.

cocaine can be untraceable within 24hours so just cause he turned up the next day means nothing

Cocaine can be untracable in urine within 24 hrs, but not in blood tests. What sorts of tests do they run, is it just urine or do they do bloods as well??????????
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dutchmcfc
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disoriented scholar, covered in chocolate
talkingsense
Apr 7 2008, 08:38 AM
As a moderator I have been emailed on this topic.

For the record Rio was tested 24 hours later and passed the test. He also offered the opportunity for the testers to take a hair follicle because apparently drug use, even recreational drugs can apparently show there for quite sometime after any offence.

I am as convinced as anyone can be that Rio did not take drugs, but it can also be argued that missing a drugs test is also cheating. Many athletes have done this to avoid discovery, including that Greek sprinter (the lady one) who has now been awarded one of Marion Jones' gold medals, because Marion Jones has finally admitted cheating. Passing a medal from one cheat to another.

btw, before the Rio situation several players had missed drugs tests without punishment. There may have been many but several admitted that they had, one played for Man City but I can't remember which player that was. This was part of the reason Rio reacted irresponsibly, he didn't think missing it was a big deal. When things came about that it was then Utd acted very arrogantly to dismiss his crimes. This was red rag to a bull to the authorities and Rio's penalty was a huge over reaction, remember 3 players in Italy (including Jip Japp Stam) only got 3 months for testing positive for nandrelone a year earlier.

I think for testing positive for performance enhancing drugs there should be a comparable and consistent stance with all sports people, at the moment internationally in Athletics it's 2 years first offence, lifetime there after. Historically football hasn't suffered much, probably because skill and teamwork have been more important. Now though it is certainly a faster game where athleticism is becoming increasingly important so the temptations will be increasing, especially because there are human growth hormones which are apparently invisible to tests.

As for recreational drug use, I'm sure the clubs are more concerned with this as if anything, certainly over time, this is likely to inhibit performance. Difficult to have different punishments for drug abuse but it is strange that one type can enhance and another restrict athletic performance.

It can be argued that by missing the test, Rio became a drug cheat if you want to be pedantic and follow the letter of the law, but consider this: we have probably all broken speed limits in our time, strictly speaking doing 71 mph on an empty motorway is speeding, so is doing 71mph on a crowded housing estate in the middle of the day. Not the same crime exactly though is it?

Now I'd best get back to work.

You bring up an interesting point sense, namely what is a illegal drug in sport and what isn't/ I happen to know that Marihuana is considered to be doping as well, which is just plain stupid. I've never ever seen anyone perform better at a sport after smoking a spliff. If anything it worsens your performance. There are some other drugs on that list which have the same problem. Of course players shouldn't do drugs. But some drugs are just not performance enhancing in any way. Players doing those drugs should not be punished by the drug tests, but by their clubs, and possibly the authorities. The french goalie Lama was once banned for a Year (!) because he smoked some ganja. Drug tests should be about performance enhancing drugs, not about drugs in General. Players often drink alcohol (which is a very harmful drug) but are not tested for that either.

I am right now imagining Rooney on acid, onthe pitch, and man it certainly does NOT enhance his performance.
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Ricky
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Ambition
Ya its really an interesting one

Kieran Fallon got 18 months by french authorites for failing a drug test (traces of cocaine) after winning a race.

Mutu had traces of cocaine, Chelsea fans will know better than me - did'nt the club actually terminate his contract as well?

Can't see in either codes how they gained a competitive advantage as opposed to say an athlethe who takes a banned substance knowingly for a competitive advantage - which is cheating - and in most cases they will get a 2 year ban

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dutchmcfc
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disoriented scholar, covered in chocolate
RickyKaka22
Apr 8 2008, 11:29 AM
Ya its really an interesting one

Kieran Fallon got 18 months by french authorites for failing a drug test (traces of cocaine) after winning a race.

Mutu had traces of cocaine, Chelsea fans will know better than me - did'nt the club actually terminate his contract as well?

Can't see in either codes how they gained a competitive advantage as opposed to say an athlethe who takes a banned substance knowingly for a competitive advantage - which is cheating - and in most cases they will get a 2 year ban

Well cocaine might actually be an enhancer. It makes you more confident, and gives you the belief that you are on top of the world. so maybe coke is a wrong example. XTC and marihuana are better examples I think (picture a player who'se constantly hugging everyone on the pitch, because he loves them so much :D )
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RetardedDwarf
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RickyKaka22
Apr 8 2008, 12:29 PM
Ya its really an interesting one

Kieran Fallon got 18 months by french authorites for failing a drug test (traces of cocaine) after winning a race.

Mutu had traces of cocaine, Chelsea fans will know better than me - did'nt the club actually terminate his contract as well?

Can't see in either codes how they gained a competitive advantage as opposed to say an athlethe who takes a banned substance knowingly for a competitive advantage - which is cheating - and in most cases they will get a 2 year ban

Yep, both Mutu and Bosnich had contracts termintated for failing drugs tests...........although both had been given help by the club for the same prob in past and warned that 1 more failure would be there last with the club.
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flak
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Maybe non-performance enhancing drugs are frowned upon because these players are all celebrities and role models for kids, therefore it's seen as some kind of endorsement for taking them. We all know drugs are baaaad...m'okaay!
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RetardedDwarf
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At the end of the day thje drugs we r talking about are illegal.............more and more non-sports related companies r starting random tests. Most clubs do there own drug testing anyway nowadays, and try to get the players help before its picked up in future official tests. The club arent under any obligation to inform to outside officials if a player has failed a test.
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