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Short Memories?
Topic Started: Sep 26 2008, 04:59 PM (800 Views)
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azward
Sep 26 2008, 07:43 PM
Jeebus
Sep 26 2008, 07:39 PM
azward
Sep 26 2008, 07:36 PM
makethat10
Sep 26 2008, 07:32 PM
Yes I know that. When he first came about there was loads of hype. When you're playing well for England you're one of the world's best...when you're not you're overrated. If he wasn't English he'd be rated higher imo.

agree. ebglish players are hyped by english press, just to bring them crashing down in the event of a sniff of failure.
but on a global scale, english players aren't rated as high as foriegn counterparts.
Imbrahimovic is a classic example for me of this.

thats bc english players are nowhere near as good as the english media make out which accounts for their continuos failure at international level

yes.

Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney, Rio, Cole, Terry all poor players.

absolutely nothing to do with a manager not playing them as a team, playing them out of position, naivety in tactics etc...

yea, bc that is what i said... they were poor...

you sound like somebodies wife now :rofl:
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kebabeater
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Tadpole's Excrement
Jimmymac
Sep 26 2008, 05:07 PM
azward
Sep 26 2008, 05:04 PM
been harping on about this myself for a while Jimbo.

Fickle isn't even close...even being European and Premiership champions doesn't cut it

come come now fella, united surely dont have enough of a track record so far to show people that a start like this seasons means nothing!


ITs amazing really that people will try and write off teams and players so quickly, the norm now seems to be that you can have an entire season, perhaps even more of being fantastic and then a matter of 4-5 games and your Joe Average again.

we had this crap last season with certain united fans on the ss forum saying 'fergie has lost the plot' and 'united will win nothing' :angry: they are an embarrassment :angry:
and now there is this season....there was another red saying, a few days ago, that we will finish 4th at best!!!! :blink: unbelievable :ph43r: :angry:
Manchester = 50% United, 31% City, 19% the rest. Manchester is RED. Always has been.
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It'sREDinRussia
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Si
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:49 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:31 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:25 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:19 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:13 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:11 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:59 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 07:54 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:47 PM
If i remember rightly, Rooneys scoring rate last season was the highest he has ever had. 42 games and 18 goals. Thats 1 goal every 2.33 games. He has never been a 30+ a season player, but even with everybody saying how badly he is playing, still think his 2.33 sr was the best season he has had.

Not a bad goal-scoring record but he is far too overhyped. Commentators and fans alike seem to have such anticipation when Rooney has the ball even though he usually ends up losing it attempting passes that just aren't on.

Good player, not a great one.

Not disagreeing about that, but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well. If thats the case, he has never played well for any period of time.

You judge players on stats? :rolleyes:

I watch 90 minutes of every United game and form an opinion from observation.

from your armchair :lol:

80% of the time, and you?

I don't base my opinion just on observation, stats play their part. It also helps not to expect every player is gonna be maradona

Of course statistics are useful but they don't tell the full story, you cannot base judgments on misleading statistics, and statistics that only make up PART of the game we love. Observation should be the main source of judgment.
And what does watching from an armchair have to do with anything?

I can only afford 3-4 games this season, single ticket prices are ridiculous.

It was your...

You judge players on stats :rolleyes:

remark when you know thats not what he was saying. RD was giving one aspect of how Rooney's game hasn't necessarily deteriorated.

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well


How is that not purely using statistics to generate a measure on how good his season was?

And you haven't told me what the armchair comment was about?
Simmer...
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treble
Member Avatar
The Chosen Juan
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:57 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:49 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:31 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:25 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:19 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:13 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:11 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:59 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 07:54 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:47 PM
If i remember rightly, Rooneys scoring rate last season was the highest he has ever had. 42 games and 18 goals. Thats 1 goal every 2.33 games. He has never been a 30+ a season player, but even with everybody saying how badly he is playing, still think his 2.33 sr was the best season he has had.

Not a bad goal-scoring record but he is far too overhyped. Commentators and fans alike seem to have such anticipation when Rooney has the ball even though he usually ends up losing it attempting passes that just aren't on.

Good player, not a great one.

Not disagreeing about that, but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well. If thats the case, he has never played well for any period of time.

You judge players on stats? :rolleyes:

I watch 90 minutes of every United game and form an opinion from observation.

from your armchair :lol:

80% of the time, and you?

I don't base my opinion just on observation, stats play their part. It also helps not to expect every player is gonna be maradona

Of course statistics are useful but they don't tell the full story, you cannot base judgments on misleading statistics, and statistics that only make up PART of the game we love. Observation should be the main source of judgment.
And what does watching from an armchair have to do with anything?

I can only afford 3-4 games this season, single ticket prices are ridiculous.

It was your...

You judge players on stats :rolleyes:

remark when you know thats not what he was saying. RD was giving one aspect of how Rooney's game hasn't necessarily deteriorated.

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well


How is that not purely using statistics to generate a measure on how good his season was?

And you haven't told me what the armchair comment was about?

Well read that RD quote again, IF you look at the stats..... and as I said he is talking about one aspect to measure a players performance. He also wasn't using some arbitrary stat, it was comparison of seasons's performance which in it's own right tells a story.

As for the armchair critic remark I answered that by saying it helps not to expect every player is maradona. It's easy to make that opinion as an armchair critic, I try not to. I think you set your standards too high and that's because you're expecting too much from players at times. Your comment earlier about Rooney being "good player, not great" was the same thing you said about Tevez in august and then you changed your mind a month later. If that was based on observation alone I don't understand that because so far this season he has not played any better than he did last season. Isn't this what Jimmy is getting at when he talks about being fickle? :ph43r:
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It'sREDinRussia
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Si
treble
Sep 26 2008, 09:09 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:57 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:49 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:31 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:25 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:19 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:13 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:11 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:59 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 07:54 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:47 PM
If i remember rightly, Rooneys scoring rate last season was the highest he has ever had. 42 games and 18 goals. Thats 1 goal every 2.33 games. He has never been a 30+ a season player, but even with everybody saying how badly he is playing, still think his 2.33 sr was the best season he has had.

Not a bad goal-scoring record but he is far too overhyped. Commentators and fans alike seem to have such anticipation when Rooney has the ball even though he usually ends up losing it attempting passes that just aren't on.

Good player, not a great one.

Not disagreeing about that, but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well. If thats the case, he has never played well for any period of time.

You judge players on stats? :rolleyes:

I watch 90 minutes of every United game and form an opinion from observation.

from your armchair :lol:

80% of the time, and you?

I don't base my opinion just on observation, stats play their part. It also helps not to expect every player is gonna be maradona

Of course statistics are useful but they don't tell the full story, you cannot base judgments on misleading statistics, and statistics that only make up PART of the game we love. Observation should be the main source of judgment.
And what does watching from an armchair have to do with anything?

I can only afford 3-4 games this season, single ticket prices are ridiculous.

It was your...

You judge players on stats :rolleyes:

remark when you know thats not what he was saying. RD was giving one aspect of how Rooney's game hasn't necessarily deteriorated.

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well


How is that not purely using statistics to generate a measure on how good his season was?

And you haven't told me what the armchair comment was about?

Well read that RD quote again, IF you look at the stats..... and as I said he is talking about one aspect to measure a players performance. He also wasn't using some arbitrary stat, it was comparison of seasons's performance which in it's own right tells a story.

As for the armchair critic remark I answered that by saying it helps not to expect every player is maradona. It's easy to make that opinion as an armchair critic, I try not to. I think you set your standards too high and that's because you're expecting too much from players at times. Your comment earlier about Rooney being "good player, not great" was the same thing you said about Tevez in august and then you changed your mind a month later. If that was based on observation alone I don't understand that because so far this season he has not played any better than he did last season. Isn't this what Jimmy is getting at when he talks about being fickle? :ph43r:

Tevez has not played any better this season than last season? :blink:

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season,


He is implying he had his best season for United due to a goal-ratio stat that was marginally better than the season before...last season was his poorest season when taking his overall contribution into account.

I haven't considered Rooney a 'great' player for a long time - Tevez wasn't all that last season but I did comment on his recent form (all pre-season games, Pompey, Zenit) as showing how great he can be. Tevez has only played two games this season in which you could not describe his performance as outstanding - Pool, Villareal...judging by the abilities he demonstrated before them I can see him establishing himself as a great player.
Simmer...
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DaGunners
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Infinite Football Knowledge
I rated Torres as the second best striker in the world but after studying his game a lot more he has dropped on my ratings. He is still an amazing striker, and world class, but I don't think I have him in my top 5 anymore...
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treble
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The Chosen Juan
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 09:27 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 09:09 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:57 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:49 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:31 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:25 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:19 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:13 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:11 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:59 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 07:54 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:47 PM
If i remember rightly, Rooneys scoring rate last season was the highest he has ever had. 42 games and 18 goals. Thats 1 goal every 2.33 games. He has never been a 30+ a season player, but even with everybody saying how badly he is playing, still think his 2.33 sr was the best season he has had.

Not a bad goal-scoring record but he is far too overhyped. Commentators and fans alike seem to have such anticipation when Rooney has the ball even though he usually ends up losing it attempting passes that just aren't on.

Good player, not a great one.

Not disagreeing about that, but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well. If thats the case, he has never played well for any period of time.

You judge players on stats? :rolleyes:

I watch 90 minutes of every United game and form an opinion from observation.

from your armchair :lol:

80% of the time, and you?

I don't base my opinion just on observation, stats play their part. It also helps not to expect every player is gonna be maradona

Of course statistics are useful but they don't tell the full story, you cannot base judgments on misleading statistics, and statistics that only make up PART of the game we love. Observation should be the main source of judgment.
And what does watching from an armchair have to do with anything?

I can only afford 3-4 games this season, single ticket prices are ridiculous.

It was your...

You judge players on stats :rolleyes:

remark when you know thats not what he was saying. RD was giving one aspect of how Rooney's game hasn't necessarily deteriorated.

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well


How is that not purely using statistics to generate a measure on how good his season was?

And you haven't told me what the armchair comment was about?

Well read that RD quote again, IF you look at the stats..... and as I said he is talking about one aspect to measure a players performance. He also wasn't using some arbitrary stat, it was comparison of seasons's performance which in it's own right tells a story.

As for the armchair critic remark I answered that by saying it helps not to expect every player is maradona. It's easy to make that opinion as an armchair critic, I try not to. I think you set your standards too high and that's because you're expecting too much from players at times. Your comment earlier about Rooney being "good player, not great" was the same thing you said about Tevez in august and then you changed your mind a month later. If that was based on observation alone I don't understand that because so far this season he has not played any better than he did last season. Isn't this what Jimmy is getting at when he talks about being fickle? :ph43r:

Tevez has not played any better this season than last season? :blink:

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season,


He is implying he had his best season for United due to a goal-ratio stat that was marginally better than the season before...last season was his poorest season when taking his overall contribution into account.

I haven't considered Rooney a 'great' player for a long time - Tevez wasn't all that last season but I did comment on his recent form (all pre-season games, Pompey, Zenit) as showing how great he can be. Tevez has only played two games this season in which you could not describe his performance as outstanding - Pool, Villareal...judging by the abilities he demonstrated before them I can see him establishing himself as a great player.

I'm not gonna go over my previous post, he said IF you look at the stats I don't get what's so difficult to understand there?

And I don't know what you were observing over 90 mins last season, but simply writing....

Tevez not played any better this season than last season :blink:

doesn't mean anything to me tbh.

And I guess you have an excuse (ahem) reason for... "Anderson is turning into a headless chicken" after a handful of games this season, isn't this also an example of the same thing as your short term thinking on Tevez?

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stacie
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Dipped in chocolate, bronzed with elegance
Most players are judged too soon to begin with. They're not really given chances to show talent over a period of time.
flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around

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treble
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The Chosen Juan
DaGunners
Sep 26 2008, 09:29 PM
I rated Torres as the second best striker in the world but after studying his game a lot more he has dropped on my ratings.  He is still an amazing striker, and world class, but I don't think I have him in my top 5 anymore...

LMFAO

I'm sure he won't sleep tonight :rolleyes:
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Monty
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I'm a naughty boy
Treb has hit the nail on the head here. Russia and DaGunners are really just proving the point of the thread...
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stacie
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Dipped in chocolate, bronzed with elegance
Flip the script and people wouldn't raise much fuss. Had Torres followed a s**t season with a hot start, you could say 'yeah he's looking really good' and people wouldn't care so much. (Especially Kopites).
Go the other way and people start rolling their eyes at your opinion.
flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around

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Monty
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stacie
Sep 26 2008, 09:53 PM
Flip the script and people wouldn't raise much fuss. Had Torres followed a s**t season with a hot start, you could say 'yeah he's looking really good' and people wouldn't care so much. (Especially Kopites).
Go the other way and people start rolling their eyes at your opinion.

Saying he is looking really good is different to re-assessing your opinion of a player completly over a short period of time - the point of this thread...
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It'sREDinRussia
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Si
treble
Sep 26 2008, 09:44 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 09:27 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 09:09 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:57 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:49 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:31 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:25 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:19 PM
treble
Sep 26 2008, 08:13 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 08:11 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:59 PM
It'sREDinRussia
Sep 26 2008, 07:54 PM
RetardedDwarf
Sep 26 2008, 07:47 PM
If i remember rightly, Rooneys scoring rate last season was the highest he has ever had. 42 games and 18 goals. Thats 1 goal every 2.33 games. He has never been a 30+ a season player, but even with everybody saying how badly he is playing, still think his 2.33 sr was the best season he has had.

Not a bad goal-scoring record but he is far too overhyped. Commentators and fans alike seem to have such anticipation when Rooney has the ball even though he usually ends up losing it attempting passes that just aren't on.

Good player, not a great one.

Not disagreeing about that, but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well. If thats the case, he has never played well for any period of time.

You judge players on stats? :rolleyes:

I watch 90 minutes of every United game and form an opinion from observation.

from your armchair :lol:

80% of the time, and you?

I don't base my opinion just on observation, stats play their part. It also helps not to expect every player is gonna be maradona

Of course statistics are useful but they don't tell the full story, you cannot base judgments on misleading statistics, and statistics that only make up PART of the game we love. Observation should be the main source of judgment.
And what does watching from an armchair have to do with anything?

I can only afford 3-4 games this season, single ticket prices are ridiculous.

It was your...

You judge players on stats :rolleyes:

remark when you know thats not what he was saying. RD was giving one aspect of how Rooney's game hasn't necessarily deteriorated.

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season, but peeps r saying he isnt playing well


How is that not purely using statistics to generate a measure on how good his season was?

And you haven't told me what the armchair comment was about?

Well read that RD quote again, IF you look at the stats..... and as I said he is talking about one aspect to measure a players performance. He also wasn't using some arbitrary stat, it was comparison of seasons's performance which in it's own right tells a story.

As for the armchair critic remark I answered that by saying it helps not to expect every player is maradona. It's easy to make that opinion as an armchair critic, I try not to. I think you set your standards too high and that's because you're expecting too much from players at times. Your comment earlier about Rooney being "good player, not great" was the same thing you said about Tevez in august and then you changed your mind a month later. If that was based on observation alone I don't understand that because so far this season he has not played any better than he did last season. Isn't this what Jimmy is getting at when he talks about being fickle? :ph43r:

Tevez has not played any better this season than last season? :blink:

Quote:
 
but if u look at the stats, he had his best season for United last season,


He is implying he had his best season for United due to a goal-ratio stat that was marginally better than the season before...last season was his poorest season when taking his overall contribution into account.

I haven't considered Rooney a 'great' player for a long time - Tevez wasn't all that last season but I did comment on his recent form (all pre-season games, Pompey, Zenit) as showing how great he can be. Tevez has only played two games this season in which you could not describe his performance as outstanding - Pool, Villareal...judging by the abilities he demonstrated before them I can see him establishing himself as a great player.

I'm not gonna go over my previous post, he said IF you look at the stats I don't get what's so difficult to understand there?

And I don't know what you were observing over 90 mins last season, but simply writing....

Tevez not played any better this season than last season :blink:

doesn't mean anything to me tbh.

And I guess you have an excuse (ahem) reason for... "Anderson is turning into a headless chicken" after a handful of games this season, isn't this also an example of the same thing as your short term thinking on Tevez?

Surely you've noticed Tevez's rise in form?

I rate Anderson for what he did at the beginning of last season, and yes, on the basis of 3 games this season and countless stupid decisions (shooting from 80 yards) tells me something.

I never said it would continue as things change in football, quickly, but he is without doubt showing less composure this season than last.

Quote:
 
I'm not gonna go over my previous post, he said IF you look at the stats I don't get what's so difficult to understand there?


...I don't either, he's saying that the stats suggest he had his best season due to an increase (by a fraction) in goal-to-game ratio...analysing overall game as a far more productive method of judgment.

I am in no way fickle - we can lose tomorrow against Bolton..I would be DEVASTATED should it happen but I won't be calling for Fergie's head nor dismissing our title chances...
Simmer...
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stacie
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Dipped in chocolate, bronzed with elegance
Well, a lot of times people aren't completely changing their opinions - they're just saying 'he's looking kinda crap right now' or 'he's been playing like crap'. Most times they're not completely changing their whole opinion permanently, imo.

And thanks, I do know what the point of the thread is.
flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around

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It'sREDinRussia
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Si
makethat10
Sep 26 2008, 10:04 PM
stacie
Sep 26 2008, 09:53 PM
Flip the script and people wouldn't raise much fuss. Had Torres followed a s**t season with a hot start, you could say 'yeah he's looking really good' and people wouldn't care so much. (Especially Kopites).
Go the other way and people start rolling their eyes at your opinion.

Saying he is looking really good is different to re-assessing your opinion of a player completly over a short period of time - the point of this thread...

DaGunners rated Torres as the no1 striker last year but I think after reading my criticisms of his overall game has looked from a different angle and is reassessing his previous views.

Not everyone can spot everything...nothing wrong with reviewing an opinion.
Simmer...
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