-
Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Greetings and welcome to The Football Net. We love talking balls, do you?


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. Therefore you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, take part in the banter, vote in polls and enjoy fun competitions such as fantasy football and the betting exchange. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.


Join us today on our football forums to talk balls with us!


If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Wolves vs Liverpool
Topic Started: Jan 25 2010, 08:10 PM (1,849 Views)
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
flak
Jan 26 2010, 11:30 PM
Papa_Lazarou
Jan 26 2010, 11:22 PM
It's nothing to do with trust Flak - AA is not a CM from what I've seen of him. He can play the AM role fairly well but he's way too over-creative for CM - by that I mean he tries umpteen different flicks and tricks but only about 5% seem to work. That's not too bad if he's doing it around their box as an AM but if he does it as a CM we're in trouble.

Gerrard should have been dropped back in and Aquilani put AM but Rafa doesn't like putting Gerrard CM either :lol:
It makes you wonder why he bought him in the first place then. Not Rafa's choice? Panic buy? I dunno but it's no good having a £20m player who sits o nthe bench week after week when the first team could be improved.

I think Rafa's problem is he's too stubborn when something clearly isn't working, he sticks to his guns.
I genuinely think he bought him to "replace" Alonso - certainly he bought him to play CM. However, from what I've seen, and judging by the evidence of his few games so far, from what Rafa sees - AA can't play CM in the Premiership right now.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Sicilian
Member Avatar
Going To Make You An Offer You Cant Refuse.
AA has never played CM has he?
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
The Sicilian
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
AA has never played CM has he?
His first couple of appearances were. Since then he's played AM and performed far better.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Sicilian
Member Avatar
Going To Make You An Offer You Cant Refuse.
And El, about time you changed your name its almost February ffs!
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
The Sicilian
Member Avatar
Going To Make You An Offer You Cant Refuse.
Papa_Lazarou
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
The Sicilian
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
AA has never played CM has he?
His first couple of appearances were. Since then he's played AM and performed far better.
I mean over the course of his career.
Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Inglorious BarcaTed
Member Avatar
Sausage Warrior
Get to end of season and dump this fat waste of space as soon as (ideally from a very very very tall building)
always remember you're unique - just like everyone else
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
The Sicilian
Jan 26 2010, 11:36 PM
Papa_Lazarou
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
The Sicilian
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
AA has never played CM has he?
His first couple of appearances were. Since then he's played AM and performed far better.
I mean over the course of his career.
No idea to be honest - i didn't see anything of him in Italy but I thought most people were saying he is a CM. My opinions on him are solely judged on what I have seen at Liverpool in the First team and his short spell in the reserves.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheReturnOfTheKing
Definitely NOT a Terrorist
in what system tho papa? the arsenal cm are just as attacking if not more?

look at milner at villa

the unite cm and so on

i think you are being unfair on aa, he does need to cut out the flicks but he can play cm, alonso was a dm so there is a difference there mate. i just think rafa wants very defensive minded players. this is a common thing, we always struggle against lesser teams

look at how many late goals we needed last season against lesser teams? we got very lucky with about 5 of our wins imo

dropped points against boro, stoke, hull, and a couple of other lesser teams

this season the same thing, in fact it is worse. he just doesnt learn, if rafa learned his lesson then i will say fair enough, at least he is trying but when you go to WOLVES and dont play in an attacking style then you know what, you can just fork off to another club

he just isnt learning, nobody can deny that point. i honestly would like to hear what other fans think of rafa in detail (2-3 paragraphs) barce/el/mos
no
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheReturnOfTheKing
Definitely NOT a Terrorist
The Sicilian
Jan 26 2010, 11:35 PM
AA has never played CM has he?
he was the first choice cm when fit for roma...he is a fine cm. just too attacking for rafa imo

he made it in roma at cm in the italian league, he is good enough. hell totti and de rossi were singing his praises when he left, i bet they are shocked at how rafa has treated him

the man has talent, its there for all to see.
no
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
LFC19TITLES
Jan 26 2010, 11:38 PM
in what system tho papa? the arsenal cm are just as attacking if not more?

look at milner at villa

the unite cm and so on

i think you are being unfair on aa, he does need to cut out the flicks but he can play cm, alonso was a dm so there is a difference there mate. i just think rafa wants very defensive minded players. this is a common thing, we always struggle against lesser teams

look at how many late goals we needed last season against lesser teams? we got very lucky with about 5 of our wins imo

dropped points against boro, stoke, hull, and a couple of other lesser teams

this season the same thing, in fact it is worse. he just doesnt learn, if rafa learned his lesson then i will say fair enough, at least he is trying but when you go to WOLVES and dont play in an attacking style then you know what, you can just fork off to another club

he just isnt learning, nobody can deny that point. i honestly would like to hear what other fans think of rafa in detail (2-3 paragraphs) barce/el/mos
You can hardly compare our players to Arsenal's :lol:

They are all technically gifted and have all their best attributes based in attacking play. We are just the opposite.

Milner is extremely good defensively - I would say he is their equivilant of Kuyt only with better control :lol:

United's midfield is shockingly poor really and I don't think comparing ours to theirs is going to acheive much - ours doesn't work as it should and neither does theirs.

Alonso wasn't a DM by a long way - he was out and out a deeplying playmaker. He didn't go running about in front of the back line breaking up play - the guy took 15 minutes to cross the width of the pitch he was so slow! He was simply the link-man between defense and attack and that is what we are now sorely missing.

From what I have seen of AA he just isn't suited to CM in England right now - he isn't quick enough on the ball and gets tackled as easily as Lucas. He's not physically strong enough to hold off the challenges. He panics when he gets closed down and therefore tries to play fancy one-touch passes all the time that very rarely come off. Alonso could get away with all his physical restraints because he was so damn clever and calm on the ball and AA just doesn't have this yet. It may be that he develops it over time and with confidence but we don't have the time to give him right now.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
flak
Member Avatar
It's nearly Christmas
LFC19TITLES
Jan 26 2010, 11:32 PM
flak
Jan 26 2010, 11:30 PM
I think Rafa's problem is he's too stubborn when something clearly isn't working, he sticks to his guns.
your last point is spot on, tbh i think every manager is like that tho

but rafa's ego is holding this club back from the next level, its just a damn shame. what annoyed me is when the pressure is on he uses the fans support to manipulate to his gain. i remember redknapp touching on that, he was spot on
He does give in in the end but it usually takes ages. Moving to 4-5-1 and stopping rotating every match are examples I can think of.

I don't see why you need two defensive based players when you have Mascherano in the team who hardly ventures forwards and Gerrard in the team who isn't a proper striker and will drop into midfield to help out a bit.
Posted Image Posted Image
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheReturnOfTheKing
Definitely NOT a Terrorist
Papa_Lazarou
Jan 26 2010, 11:47 PM
LFC19TITLES
Jan 26 2010, 11:38 PM
in what system tho papa? the arsenal cm are just as attacking if not more?

look at milner at villa

the unite cm and so on

i think you are being unfair on aa, he does need to cut out the flicks but he can play cm, alonso was a dm so there is a difference there mate. i just think rafa wants very defensive minded players. this is a common thing, we always struggle against lesser teams

look at how many late goals we needed last season against lesser teams? we got very lucky with about 5 of our wins imo

dropped points against boro, stoke, hull, and a couple of other lesser teams

this season the same thing, in fact it is worse. he just doesnt learn, if rafa learned his lesson then i will say fair enough, at least he is trying but when you go to WOLVES and dont play in an attacking style then you know what, you can just fork off to another club

he just isnt learning, nobody can deny that point. i honestly would like to hear what other fans think of rafa in detail (2-3 paragraphs) barce/el/mos
You can hardly compare our players to Arsenal's :lol:

They are all technically gifted and have all their best attributes based in attacking play. We are just the opposite.

Milner is extremely good defensively - I would say he is their equivilant of Kuyt only with better control :lol:

United's midfield is shockingly poor really and I don't think comparing ours to theirs is going to acheive much - ours doesn't work as it should and neither does theirs.

Alonso wasn't a DM by a long way - he was out and out a deeplying playmaker. He didn't go running about in front of the back line breaking up play - the guy took 15 minutes to cross the width of the pitch he was so slow! He was simply the link-man between defense and attack and that is what we are now sorely missing.

From what I have seen of AA he just isn't suited to CM in England right now - he isn't quick enough on the ball and gets tackled as easily as Lucas. He's not physically strong enough to hold off the challenges. He panics when he gets closed down and therefore tries to play fancy one-touch passes all the time that very rarely come off. Alonso could get away with all his physical restraints because he was so damn clever and calm on the ball and AA just doesn't have this yet. It may be that he develops it over time and with confidence but we don't have the time to give him right now.
song and denilson, they go forward more than aa is my point

aa can play the forward balls or gerrard can to link up attack

the problem is rafa does NOT want that to happen, hence me saying he hasnt learned his lesson. rafa hates having an open and attacking game. the game against wolves is exactly what he wanted imo its a damn shame because his tactics are taking the players level lower


carragher-----skirtel-----kyr----insua

-------lucas----------masch--------

not in a million years will we play flowing football which all top teams must with those players to start off attacks. rafa knows this, he went out to get a draw against wolves. look at his post match, he is a very happy man.

at flak

we still play 4-5-1, reason he doesnt rotate is

we dont have options at full back

he will never rotate gerrard because hs is the only creative player and expects miracles from him

he hates babel, so we got no options on the wing

he loves kuyt and lucas

he has learned nothing, i can promise you that
no
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
LFC19TITLES
Jan 26 2010, 11:53 PM
Papa_Lazarou
Jan 26 2010, 11:47 PM
LFC19TITLES
Jan 26 2010, 11:38 PM
in what system tho papa? the arsenal cm are just as attacking if not more?

look at milner at villa

the unite cm and so on

i think you are being unfair on aa, he does need to cut out the flicks but he can play cm, alonso was a dm so there is a difference there mate. i just think rafa wants very defensive minded players. this is a common thing, we always struggle against lesser teams

look at how many late goals we needed last season against lesser teams? we got very lucky with about 5 of our wins imo

dropped points against boro, stoke, hull, and a couple of other lesser teams

this season the same thing, in fact it is worse. he just doesnt learn, if rafa learned his lesson then i will say fair enough, at least he is trying but when you go to WOLVES and dont play in an attacking style then you know what, you can just fork off to another club

he just isnt learning, nobody can deny that point. i honestly would like to hear what other fans think of rafa in detail (2-3 paragraphs) barce/el/mos
You can hardly compare our players to Arsenal's :lol:

They are all technically gifted and have all their best attributes based in attacking play. We are just the opposite.

Milner is extremely good defensively - I would say he is their equivilant of Kuyt only with better control :lol:

United's midfield is shockingly poor really and I don't think comparing ours to theirs is going to acheive much - ours doesn't work as it should and neither does theirs.

Alonso wasn't a DM by a long way - he was out and out a deeplying playmaker. He didn't go running about in front of the back line breaking up play - the guy took 15 minutes to cross the width of the pitch he was so slow! He was simply the link-man between defense and attack and that is what we are now sorely missing.

From what I have seen of AA he just isn't suited to CM in England right now - he isn't quick enough on the ball and gets tackled as easily as Lucas. He's not physically strong enough to hold off the challenges. He panics when he gets closed down and therefore tries to play fancy one-touch passes all the time that very rarely come off. Alonso could get away with all his physical restraints because he was so damn clever and calm on the ball and AA just doesn't have this yet. It may be that he develops it over time and with confidence but we don't have the time to give him right now.
song and denilson, they go forward more than aa is my point

aa can play the forward balls or gerrard can to link up attack

the problem is rafa does NOT want that to happen, hence me saying he hasnt learned his lesson. rafa hates having an open and attacking game. the game against wolves is exactly what he wanted imo its a damn shame because his tactics are taking the players level lower


carragher-----skirtel-----kyr----insua

-------lucas----------masch--------

not in a million years will we play flowing football which all top teams must with those players to start off attacks. rafa knows this, he went out to get a draw against wolves. look at his post match, he is a very happy man.
Not sure if I'm not wording it right or not but I am actually agreeing with your point against weaker sides like Wolves. I still wouldn't put AA in CM though. Gerrard CM and Aquilani in AM every time for me. You could even have put Degen at RB and Carra in the centre with Kryten to give even more attacking options.

Still would have started with Kuyt but would have taken him off for N'Gog after 55-60 mins if it wasn't working.

No manager really loves free-flowing attacking games as generally they are that way for both sides and therefore you are not defending properly and prone to conceding. It's all about striking a balance. Arsenal are a bit too attacking and leave themselves too open. We are way too defensive and struggle to get enough goals to kill a game off - hence we are often struggling at the end trying to hold on while the opposition can go for broke. Then we concede a late goal and all of a sudden a hard faught win turns into a desperate draw.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
TheReturnOfTheKing
Definitely NOT a Terrorist
papa agrees with lfc, damn you actually did. i am so used to being against the world. i aint sure what to type now, this has never happened before :lol:


ok i will think you dont agree to respond to your 2nd point

i think we have a balance with gerrard or aa in cm, my point is he doesnt want that balance because of his cautious nature papa my man
no
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Papa_Lazarou
Member Avatar
Randolph
LFC19TITLES
Jan 27 2010, 12:01 AM
papa agrees with lfc, damn you actually did. i am so used to being against the world. i aint sure what to type now, this has never happened before :lol:


ok i will think you dont agree to respond to your 2nd point

i think we have a balance with gerrard or aa in cm, my point is he doesnt want that balance because of his cautious nature papa my man
Yea, I'll agree with that to a point. I'd like nothing more than to see us really go for it against sides like Wolves. There was no way in hell that they were ever going to set out to attack us from the off. We all know Rafa is a man of fine details. He will always set a side up first and foremost not to concede. Keep a clean sheet and you're halfway to 3 points. However, when we have so little creativity and flair what is the point of settling for a clean sheet - you are, in essence, settling for a 0-0 draw. Defies logic to me. Get that side out there to batter lesser sides - by all means sure things up at 2 or 3 goals ahead but don't make it so that we have to scramble for a late goal to sneak a victory. For one thing it's bloomin' embarrassing to watch.

I like the fact that Rafa is so strong minded. I hate nothing more than a manager that will change things on a whim or at the behest (sp?) of the media. However, I think that Rafa is taking things a step too far now and needs to start working on 2 sets of tactics, 1 for playing against good sides and 1 for playing average sides.
Posted Image

Oppa Papa Style
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Match Day Café · Next Topic »
Add Reply

-- -