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Aston Villa V Manchester United; Carling Cup Final: 28th Feb 3.00pm
Topic Started: Feb 26 2010, 10:44 AM (2,134 Views)
Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
CAN7ONA
Mar 1 2010, 04:13 PM
The most annoying aspect of refereeing televised fixtures is when you are criticised despite making the correct decision in the laws of the game.

Opinions are vital for good debate but the facts need to be stated correctly.

Frustrated with Gray's analysis, I turned over to the BBC for the half-time words with Gary Lineker. Alan Shearer, Alan Hansen and Gareth Southgate all agreed that ref Phil Dowd was wrong not to dismiss Vidic.

Shearer, the master scorer, understandably applied his own logic to the position that Agbonlahor was in. Shearer himself would probably have scored from there.

But that is not the point in law, which states that the player must be heading towards goal when he is fouled. This point was finally offered by Southgate but that was quickly passed over.

Referees really don't mind when they are criticised after making a mistake – as long as law is correctly quoted.

In this case the analysts could have quoted all of the law, noting that there is no mention of any 'last man', and conclude that Vidic should have been sent off as it was only his presence that resulted in Agbonlahor heading away from goal – after all football is a game of opinions.

Fury: Martin O'Neill (left) was frustrated with Phil Dowd
But to quote law incorrectly for me is inexcusable. They should be informing and educating the public but to do so they need to know law themselves and along with current players, the experts analysing the game just don't feel it necessary to learn and understand the laws of the game they claim to love.

So, despite the 'controversy' in the first five minutes at Wembley, the final was an entertaining game which Dowd refereed well enough.

He was a little inconsistent with his yellow cards but that is no reason to highlight him in his first major final.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1254544/GRAHAM-POLL-Time-experts-learn-law--Nemanja-Vidic-deserved-escape-red-card-Wembley.html?ITO=1490#ixzz0gwDvYpqx
my veiw of the penalty was that gabby had actually changed direction before the tackle came in and he was not baring down on goal as much as he had been, the ball was also on his weaker side. still if vidic had not bought him down he would have been 1 on 1 with the keeper, it was a goal scoring opportunity but maybe not a clear one as krusty would have had a pretty high opportunity of closing down the angle and making it very hard for gabby. a defence for the decision but vidic should have at least been given a yellow for this

if it was against united id have wanted a red, i was expecting a red and i don't think there could have been any arguments against it being a red

"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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flak
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It's nearly Christmas
I don't get that article. :S The first paragraph hints that the referee made the right decision but the rest says that he didn't.
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TheReturnOfTheKing
Definitely NOT a Terrorist
he ran at the keeper

turned to get ready to get ready to place his shot and because vidic was pulling his shirt

no excuses, the man who wrote that article is a fool
no
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footyfan000
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Changing my tune since 2008.
In honesty, I don't think it should have been a penalty. It should've been a free kick outside the box for shirt pulling for the first offence, if we're going to be picky about referees doing everything right like the Daily Mail guy said.

Once the referee gives that penalty though, Vidic has to walk. Agbonlahor is in a prime shooting position and its not like he's heading towards the corner flag: he had a perfect angle and worked the ball to one side and would then have hit it across goal. He may not have scored, but it was an absolutely brilliant chance removed by Vidic. Vidic got nothing and Samba got a red card in the last round for the same offence and missed 3 matches for Rovers - the three matches he missed are more important than the match itself and Vidic will not face the same punishment. Atrocious stuff.

Didn't see most of the match but that decision would inevitably have had a major impact on the game.
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Dotty
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Stuck up bastard
LFC19TITLES
Mar 1 2010, 04:57 PM
he ran at the keeper

turned to get ready to get ready to place his shot and because vidic was pulling his shirt

no excuses, the man who wrote that article is a fool
It was Graham Poll, just read his other articles. He claims that Shawcross set out to intentionally injure Ramsey in one of them. :rofl:
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Inglorious BarcaTed
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Sausage Warrior
I'm surprised at Can7ona for posting that. This is a ref who produced 3 yellow cards for a player in a World Cup ffs :lol:
always remember you're unique - just like everyone else
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TheReturnOfTheKing
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Inglorious BarcaTed
Mar 1 2010, 07:56 PM
I'm surprised at Can7ona for posting that. This is a ref who produced 3 yellow cards for a player in a World Cup ffs :lol:
didnt he do it twice

he made two huge errors in 2 big competitions didnt he
no
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Inglorious BarcaTed
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Sausage Warrior
LFC19TITLES
Mar 1 2010, 07:57 PM
Inglorious BarcaTed
Mar 1 2010, 07:56 PM
I'm surprised at Can7ona for posting that. This is a ref who produced 3 yellow cards for a player in a World Cup ffs :lol:
didnt he do it twice

he made two huge errors in 2 big competitions didnt he
he's the last person on the planet that should be explaining the rules of the game :rofl:
always remember you're unique - just like everyone else
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stacie
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Dipped in chocolate, bronzed with elegance
I'm gonna have to use my memory but wasn't The Whore still heading in the direction of the goal? I do recall him pausing, but I also recall Vidic's carefully placed leg being the thing the Whore tripped on as he was heading towards the goal. Now Vidic was between him and the goal but he was definitely heading towards it :S

I can kiiinda see what flak's saying, I remember in our CL final when wotsisfaceLehmann got sent off and some people were like 'that's just ruined the game' but at the end of the day the rules are there for a reason. Not sending off a player who should have walked can also ruin a game because it sets up bad feeling for the rest of it. Ref didn't help himself out anyway.
flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around

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goslow
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stacie
Mar 1 2010, 09:05 PM
I'm gonna have to use my memory but wasn't The Whore still heading in the direction of the goal? I do recall him pausing, but I also recall Vidic's carefully placed leg being the thing the Whore tripped on as he was heading towards the goal. Now Vidic was between him and the goal but he was definitely heading towards it :S

I can kiiinda see what flak's saying, I remember in our CL final when wotsisfaceLehmann got sent off and some people were like 'that's just ruined the game' but at the end of the day the rules are there for a reason. Not sending off a player who should have walked can also ruin a game because it sets up bad feeling for the rest of it. Ref didn't help himself out anyway.
he was heading for goal until vidic swung him around by his shirt.
ego contemno palma venator

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The Sicilian
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Going To Make You An Offer You Cant Refuse.
So United were robbed then you lot of bitter forkers?
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tebroc
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"He was a little inconsistent with his yellow cards but that is no reason to highlight him in his first major final." - understatement of the century :rofl:

i think some of you dont really understand why most villa fans were so upset about the decision, its wasnt the fact that it wasnt a red, not that at all but when you're the last man and bearing down on goal (you cant tell me he isnt going to shoot if he rides that challenge) and are took out by the player a yellow card should be the very minimum the player should get. even if he gets the yellow it changes vidic's situation for the game, he is then walking on a tightrope where if he gets stuck 1 on 1 again he is really struggling but instead the referee lets him go scot free even though he has seen the incident and has the match experience to know better then that.

then to add on top of that we look at the inconsistencies in his decisions, downing and carricks tackles were very similar, one gets a yellow, one goes scot free again. rafael having about 4 last warning for barging and there were other ridiculous decisions made too. naturally we werent the only victims of his inconsistency when united werent awarded the penalty that they probably deserved.

mercedes is right, we may not have won the game as playing against united with 10 men isnt as easy as it sounds (as was shown a few weeks back) but at the very least it would have changed the complexion of the game because they would have either had to sacrifice a midfielder or striker to replace the player that had departed. make no mistake about it if this was the case we would have had a far greater chance of success then we did.

for the argument of "making it a spectacle" shouldnt vidic be thinking about that too? the ref is there to inforce the rules. no more no less. nobody forced vidic to bring him down, it was his choice and should be made to pay the consequences, whatever they may be. Its also all good and well saying "you win some you lose some" but unlike many of your clubs, this was our first cup final in 10 years, first one we've had a squad capable of competing in 14 and to have an inconsistent ref spoil our chances is not the nicest thing to happen.

overall though i cant really begrudge united winning, they were the better team for the 2nd half and did more than we did to get the goals, even if its disappointing for me to admit.

sorry, just had to get that off my chest :lol:
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flak
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It's nearly Christmas
Yep a yellow should have been the least that he got for that tackle. He ended up getting a yellow in the second half so would have been off or wouldn't have been able to make that challenge. I wonder what the referee said to O'Neill when he went over whispering in his ear anyway because it looked like O'Neill accepted whatever he said.

Downing's tackle was a bit worse than the Carrick one imo. Rafael only had one warning after two tackles from what I saw. :S

It'll be the last one for another 10 years as well. :fishing:
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TheReturnOfTheKing
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The Sicilian
Mar 1 2010, 09:53 PM
So United were robbed then you lot of bitter forkers?
Villa were mate, by your 12th man.
no
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The Sicilian
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Going To Make You An Offer You Cant Refuse.
LFC19TITLES
Mar 1 2010, 10:30 PM
The Sicilian
Mar 1 2010, 09:53 PM
So United were robbed then you lot of bitter forkers?
Villa were mate, by your 12th man.
I thought United were robbed by the post being a little bit to much to one side.
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