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berbatov
Topic Started: May 28 2011, 09:46 PM (840 Views)
mcfc1975
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roo86
May 29 2011, 07:05 PM
I dont think theres anyone who doesnt feel for Berbatov, but quite frankly over 3 years he hasnt been good enough and Fergie needs to be ruthless with the team to ensure it stays at the top, as you can expect Arsenal Chelsea City and Pool thereabouts next season and we cant have have Berbatov's Carricks of this world in our team to keep us at the top.
feel for berbatov? Lol. Minted and plays football occasionally for a living. Yeah, my forking heart bleeds for him. He is going through a right tough time at the moment.

Hasnt been good enough. Ffs he is the prem top scorer. Posts like this make me laugh. Utd fans thinking the prem leagues golden boot winner isnt good enough. He is twice the player hernandez is. Then, as if saying he isnt good enough isnt bad enough, you put him on a par with carrick. Ffs, now i might feel a twinge of sympathy for berbatov.

To say He isn't Good enough shows how Good rags have had it over the years. When your first choice centre forward is benjani, bradbury or a 53 year old george weah then you can complain about them not being good enough
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manu22
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Obviously you are a big fan of Berba. And of course Berba is as talented as they come. Yes he was prem top goal scorer as was Kevin Phillips once upon a time. Thing is Berba is too laxidazy (if that is even a word) and fails time and again to produce when it matters. No one doubts his ability what is in doubt is his mentality which is not of the standard of a "big team"

Tell me this has he been good as Dwight Yorke, Andy Cole, Sheringham, Solskjaer, Hughes, Cantona no chance. Has he there abilities yes he rivals Cantona but he hasn't got the same application to his games as these pervious strikers
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manu22
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BTW same thing happened with Veron he was superior to Keane, Scholes and Beckham. In terms of technical ability vision. But just like Berbatov he lacked the extra something unfortunately
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Chelsea Rent Boy
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Berbatov lacks that mentality that the very best have, Drogba, Torres, Rooney, Villa and so on, when it really matters, Berbatov fails to deliver on a consistent level

Hes a good striker, no doubt about that and hes very classy with great technical ability, but hes not world class and IMO hasnt repaid back the 30 million Utd paid for him
He hardly ever turns up in the big games either
Last season Utd needed him at the end of the season when Rooney was injured, it was Berbatovs chance, but he failed to capture the moment when he was needed most, he failed to deliver and Utd lost out on the league


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UwesGrandad
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He's been ridiculed by many and has struggled to justify the 30 odd million price tag at times but his exclusion from the final was harsh and a bit of a public humiliation.

Not really the way you repay the joint top scorer in the league who's goals certainly won United the title when Rooney was looking elsewhere and back out sh*gging prostitutes.

Not keen on Berba but that was harsh imo.
Will be keeping Cech in my pocket for the next 3 months. Thanks Pedro :thumb:
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manu22
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CechMate
May 29 2011, 11:21 PM
Berbatov lacks that mentality that the very best have, Drogba, Torres, Rooney, Villa and so on, when it really matters, Berbatov fails to deliver on a consistent level

Hes a good striker, no doubt about that and hes very classy with great technical ability, but hes not world class and IMO hasnt repaid back the 30 million Utd paid for him
He hardly ever turns up in the big games either
Last season Utd needed him at the end of the season when Rooney was injured, it was Berbatovs chance, but he failed to capture the moment when he was needed most, he failed to deliver and Utd lost out on the league

Sums up my exact thoughts on him.
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manu22
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:lol: Just got this from another forum: "fork you haters.. berbatov is a fantastic player, provided that the opposition is not too good, that he gets at least 5 seconds to think on the ball, that no one comes within a 10m radius of him, that the pass lands within 5cm of his head/feet, that the ball is not travelling too fast (or his groin might snap from overstretching). If everything is exactly for him, then he is the best player in the world"
:rofl:
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SuarezWasNotRacist
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You should probably stay there coz that's a pile of hairy balls :lol:
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manu22
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VivaRonaldo
May 30 2011, 01:12 AM
You should probably stay there coz that's a pile of hairy balls :lol:
:lol: genuine question Saggy where do you rate Berbatov
1) amongst united's previous/current players
2) in world football today?
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manu22
May 30 2011, 01:22 AM
VivaRonaldo
May 30 2011, 01:12 AM
You should probably stay there coz that's a pile of hairy balls :lol:
:lol: genuine question Saggy where do you rate Berbatov
1) amongst united's previous/current players
2) in world football today?
He's not a great. Not by any stretch of the imagination. It's difficult to compare him to our past players as we've never had a player similar to him really. I think he's a better player than the likes of Sheringham, but Teddy scored that night in 99 so he instantly has legend status. Berbatov has been the fall guy for the last two years here and many blame him for not stepping up last year when Rooney got injured, but what people forget is that in the game at Ewood, a game that many feel we 'lost' the league at, it was Valencia who missed the two best chances we had that day. Berbatov got the blame though, as united fans tend not to critcise Valencia as he seems quite a likeable guy and whether you like to admit it or not, that's the truth.

What infuriates me is that whenever we have a technically gifted player that would work fine in a top continental team we end up binning them because we never get our formation our tactics right or work out how to use them.

We think you need to do everything at a million miles an hour and that is the only way forward, barcelona exploded that myth right in our faces, they look casualy berba-esque on the ball right up until the 18 yard box and for all the slow, sloth bullshit about berbatov on here he is not slow in the box, you do not score 20+ goals in the modern premiership by being too slow in the box.

I guess its Fergies fault for trying to bring in a player who requires us to play in a way that we dont do, and expecting him to change himself to adapt to that style. You'd have to say it hasnt really worked eitherway, im sure if Owen was given as many games/minutes as Berb he'd have scored more, but possibly offered less around him, and i suspect a lot of the bluster over Berb is that he was a luxury striker when we needed a fox in the box player.

I love Pea, think he's a cracking player, but he's rather 1 dimensional. However its something we dont have in the team and what he offers makes a big difference and its easy to see it. He stretches the defence, stops it coming too far out, and his finishing is fantastic given the chance.
Berbatov has more to his game, but because he doesnt score goals, and we dont have a Lampard/Gerrard/Fabregas type midfielder who'll pop up with 15+ goals most seasons (if fit) we look for a goalscorer. What he brings is harder to see and quantify, and without the right players around him I think he looks a worse player for it.

I've resigned to the fact he probably won't be here next year, though i do worry about how he'd be replaced. One knock to Rooney or another dip in form, Pea finding it harder now defenders understand his game better, who steps up then? I dont see us buying the striker who'd improve us given well probably sign Young on top of De Gea and maybe a midfielder.

Square peg, round hole, and I dont see us ever changing our holes for 1 player. Not really his fault for being a square peg though.
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The Sicilian
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manu22
May 30 2011, 01:22 AM
VivaRonaldo
May 30 2011, 01:12 AM
You should probably stay there coz that's a pile of hairy balls :lol:
:lol: genuine question Saggy where do you rate Berbatov
1) amongst united's previous/current players
2) in world football today?
If this is aimed at everyone then my two cents..

1, I think he is most alike in style with Cantona. The guy oozes class, and when he is 'in the mood' he can be stupidly good. I think people also underestimate his work rate to. The problem for him has always been (IMO) that Rooney was always going to be first choice, and they're similar in the sense they both like to drop off the main man and provide/link up. He's missed some opportunities (Blackpool being the most recent, games towards the end of last season where he could have won us the league for example). (Not putting the blame solely on him before anyone jumps on that band wagon, but he was the attacker, and they are there to score goals more than anything else).

Berbatov' goals since signing below.

Year GP GS

2008–09 43 14
2009–10 43 12
2010–11 42 21

50% ratio this year in terms of goalscoring. By some distance his best goalscoring season, but those goals came in bursts....

Saying that stats are like a bikini - they reveal everything, but show nothing. So not to much should be taken from them overall as it's deceiving... Like the next ones I'll be giving.

In his earlier seasons when we had Ronaldo, Tevez, and Rooney, (2 of which were considered to be much harder working or industrious if you prefer).

Berbatov has contributed to 0.77 goals per started game
Ronaldo: 0.69 GPSG
Rooney: 0.70 GPSG
Tevez: 0.43 GPSG

So, by that he was our most creative player when we had Ronaldo and Rooney in the team. Quite a feat considering how he was crapped on by most United fans. (me included, I've never been his biggest fan, but whilst wearing a United shirt I've always supported him).

This season in the EPL he has played 32 games, scored 21 goals, has 4 assists, and had 98 shots.

By that he has contributed a goal 1 in every 5 shots roughly. A total of 25 goals in 32 games isn't a bad return at all.

Nani in contrast lines up like this.

GP- 33 GS- 9 A- 14 S- 135.

So Nani has contributed 23 goals in 33 appearances. Another impressive stat.

Both are said to be potentially on their way out of United.

Wayne Rooney :

GP- 28 GS- 11 A- 11 S- 99

So Rooney (who you seem to love) has a goal 1 in 9 shots, a total contribution of 22 goals in 28 appearances.

All 3 very similar. Like I said earlier stats don't tell the whole story but the next one will shock you I think. (not sure what game/month etc it was from but quite shocking in some senses).

Tackles Attempted
Success %
Interceptions

Dimitar Berbatov
22
86,4%
28

Wayne Rooney
10
80,0%
21

Carlos Tevez
8
75,0%
5

So he attempted more tackles than Rooney & Tevez combined, shocking considering he has always been seen as more of a luxury player than someone who can get in and graft. He also won a bigger percentage of these tackles :thumb: Oh and to top it off he made more interceptions than the 2 combined too. BUT again, stats don't tell the whole story.

I'm not his biggest fan, but I can absolutely appreciate what he brings to United. Although somewhat on an inconsistent or unregular basis, but on that look at Rooney for his inconsistencies.

For me if Rooney wasn't at the club Berbatov would've been seen in a much better light. It may not have worked out for him but I certainly wish him all the best if he were to leave.

Well done if you can make sense of this : it's 3am and I'm forked. :thumb:
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manu22
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Very good points the both of you. What I like about Rooney is he has heart and he is a leader. What's stats don't show us when we are losing which player steps up and rallies the team.

Regardless if someone is likeable or not is not how I personally judge a footballer Saggy. Like I've said on numerous occasions I thought Berbs was magnificent at Spurs and high hopes of him at united.

What the both of you have not covered is the fact Berbs very rarely scores in the big games. Im not one who likes to use this against players and scoffed at it when it was used ageing Thierry Henry and Ronaldo. But Berbatov is completely different kettle of fish.

Another thing u both didn't cover was his mentality. As much ad I agree with you Saggy on the fact at United we don't know how to get the best out of unique players like Berbs. I find this false. Are u telling me Tottenham are better at getting the best out of unique players like Berbatov?? IMO it comes down to mentality and the temperament to play at a huge club like united.

I am by no means a hater of Berbatov I can see what he can do and been watching him long enough. He just never brought his A game to united. Even he has admitted in the past he could do so much more.

From my time watching him i can draw to the conclusion that he is s fabulous player but one who froze at a big club. Unfortunately
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SuarezWasNotRacist
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manu22
May 30 2011, 09:21 AM
Very good points the both of you. What I like about Rooney is he has heart and he is a leader. What's stats don't show us when we are losing which player steps up and rallies the team.

Regardless if someone is likeable or not is not how I personally judge a footballer Saggy. Like I've said on numerous occasions I thought Berbs was magnificent at Spurs and high hopes of him at united.

What the both of you have not covered is the fact Berbs very rarely scores in the big games. Im not one who likes to use this against players and scoffed at it when it was used ageing Thierry Henry and Ronaldo. But Berbatov is completely different kettle of fish.

Another thing u both didn't cover was his mentality. As much ad I agree with you Saggy on the fact at United we don't know how to get the best out of unique players like Berbs. I find this false. Are u telling me Tottenham are better at getting the best out of unique players like Berbatov?? IMO it comes down to mentality and the temperament to play at a huge club like united.

I am by no means a hater of Berbatov I can see what he can do and been watching him long enough. He just never brought his A game to united. Even he has admitted in the past he could do so much more.

From my time watching him i can draw to the conclusion that he is s fabulous player but one who froze at a big club. Unfortunately
It's just a natural instinct really, likeable or more 'honest' players will never be criticized in the same way the fancy, show pony players are (eg Tevez and Berbatov/Valencia and Nani)

Regarding you point about spurs being better equipped for having players with the greatest ability I would actually say yes they are. They can easier afford to accommodate that type of player as they don't have many who would be near his class. Look at VDV for example. Do you think he'd have had the same success at united or arsenal or Chelsea?
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manu22
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VivaRonaldo
May 30 2011, 12:47 PM
manu22
May 30 2011, 09:21 AM
Very good points the both of you. What I like about Rooney is he has heart and he is a leader. What's stats don't show us when we are losing which player steps up and rallies the team.

Regardless if someone is likeable or not is not how I personally judge a footballer Saggy. Like I've said on numerous occasions I thought Berbs was magnificent at Spurs and high hopes of him at united.

What the both of you have not covered is the fact Berbs very rarely scores in the big games. Im not one who likes to use this against players and scoffed at it when it was used ageing Thierry Henry and Ronaldo. But Berbatov is completely different kettle of fish.

Another thing u both didn't cover was his mentality. As much ad I agree with you Saggy on the fact at United we don't know how to get the best out of unique players like Berbs. I find this false. Are u telling me Tottenham are better at getting the best out of unique players like Berbatov?? IMO it comes down to mentality and the temperament to play at a huge club like united.

I am by no means a hater of Berbatov I can see what he can do and been watching him long enough. He just never brought his A game to united. Even he has admitted in the past he could do so much more.

From my time watching him i can draw to the conclusion that he is s fabulous player but one who froze at a big club. Unfortunately
It's just a natural instinct really, likeable or more 'honest' players will never be criticized in the same way the fancy, show pony players are (eg Tevez and Berbatov/Valencia and Nani)

Regarding you point about spurs being better equipped for having players with the greatest ability I would actually say yes they are. They can easier afford to accommodate that type of player as they don't have many who would be near his class. Look at VDV for example. Do you think he'd have had the same success at united or arsenal or Chelsea?
Possibly VDV could prosper who knows. At the end of the day u either sink or swim.

And again I cant speak for others but for me i don't care if u are the nicest likeable player in the world or not. Ginola wasnt the most likeable nor is Rooney but whats not in question is there endeavour and will to work hard. Look how quick Rooney has got united supporters back onside (of course not all supporters) But he has done this through graft and match winning performances. He has scored when it matters which all anyone really cares about
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The Sicilian
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He has scored when it matters which all anyone really cares about


I'm sure someone posted he scored the most winning goals or something for United this year.
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