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Ashley Young
Topic Started: May 29 2011, 03:08 PM (1,455 Views)
Dotty
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Stuck up bastard
The odds of Utd falling out of the Top 2 is nil, nevermind the Top 4.
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Monty
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I'm a naughty boy
Buying players of the quality that will improve us in Europe will inevitably improve us in the league. That is not always the case vice versa.
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Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
Obviously, but i didn't think there was much wrong with our play until we came up against Barca in the final. Yet there was a lot wrong with 90% of our away games this season in the league.
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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Monty
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That wasn't down to personnel
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Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
It was partly down to us missing Valencia, playing Giggs/Rooney/The Twins/Fletcher/Hargo(for the whole 3 mins)/Bebe/Obertan on the wings this season was not ideal
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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player#1
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Jeffers
Jun 8 2011, 01:50 PM
IMO there is going to be far more competition in the league this season, and we were hardly world beaters last season. we were the best of a bad bunch domestically. IMO first priority is league, 2nd is CL and 3rd FA cup.

With the way City and Liverpool seem to be spending there is more chance of us falling out of the top 4

we have also reached 3 of the last 5 CL finals, which is joint with Barca, the team that beat us in the finals. we cant focus on beating 1 team
Your logic here makes very little sense to me. As Monty said if you improve your squad in Europe you improve your squad in the league simply because you improve your squad in general. What I said was I didn't feel Ashley Young would be good enough to take on the best teams in Europe and possibly not the best teams in England.

When you say Man United are good enough bar Barcelona then that implies that realistically Barcelona are the standard setters. Surely if you focus on getting to the top standard you'll improve across the board?
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Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
realistically a lot of money needs to be spent to catch Barca, just look at Madrids spending and getting nowhere near. Uniteds style is completely different in Europe as well(park starting ahead of Nani for instance) plus the other main threats to us in the CL would be the other English clubs. our wingers are generally going to be Nani and Valencia. This is a squad game and young isnt guaranteed a first team place at United.

why do we need the players that will beat Barca when we have played them twice in the last 3 years? we play teams like stoke/blackburn/wigan every other week so a signing like young is excellent for teams like that. You seem to have quite a narrow view on how football works if you only focus on beating the best teams. Barca are the only side of the last few seasons who approach every game the same way and have been successful.

Improving the side by signing a player half our rivals have been linked with is a huge tactical move.
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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Dotty
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If you can beat the best you can beat the rest.
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player#1
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LuisSua7ez
Jun 8 2011, 04:27 PM
If you can beat the best you can beat the rest.
^^^
That would be my view on it exactly.

@Jeffers, so by your rationale you need a certain group of players to play the bum teams and you buy players accordingly to play those teams and then you have other players to play the bigger teams? As in Ferguson thought to himself "Ah yes, Ashley Young is for sale, I think I'll buy him for £18M because he has the ability to perform against the poor-mediocre teams in the Premiership but I'll hold Valencia or Nani in reserve for the better teams" as opposed to "I think I'll buy Ashley Young because he should be an addition to our squad that improves its attacking quality"?

Even taking rotation, tactics, plan B's etc into consideration I can't see Ferguson buying players so that they'll suffice for the lesser teams rather than trying to improve the squad overall so that they can compete with the very best over the course of a season.
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Monty
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^ Correct.

Re: us changing tactics in Europe. That is the case because we can't hold our on in the centre of the park and we need the workers out wide to aid that. If we had Barcelona's midfield we would play Nani out wide and not Park for instance :lol: We need an out and out DM for Europe, Hargreaves was very successful in Europe for us when he played the season we won it. Hopefully Jones can buy that guy if needed too. Add someone like Banega or Modric to that and you have a midfield that can compete with Barcelona.
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Jeffers
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how is it by my rational? you must be reading something into that post that isn't there :lol: Tactically we are different in Cup competitions and in the league this is a no brainer, and where did I say young was only for the lesser team? I mentioned that he is a good signing against the lesser teams, but this doesnt mean he will be ineffective against the big teams. It also gives us a better attacking option from the bench, generally the back up winger had been Park

im saying that in the league the majority of the points come from those teams, most points = winning the league. We need to bring in a better CM to hold the ball, currently IMO that should be Modric(as was mentioned earlier) I wouldn't be against Lass Diarra but for £20m he is not worth it, only about £4m better than Fletcher

I honestly think the players that you would need to beat Barca would struggle against other teams. Everyone went on about the 3 in midfield yet in the final Messi ended up in there as well. If we signed the players I mentioned id see United play

Fabio Rio Vidic Evra
Diarra
Modric Anderson
Nani Rooney Young

Diarra to mark Messi and Rooney to drop in on Busquest almost mimicking their system. Obv Anderson will have to improve greatly as well, but he has the potential

Barca is the only team we will have a definite problem with currently, Chelsea/Arsenal/City/Real will all depend on the performance on the day and we should really be beating everyone else over 2 legs in the CL currently.

Again I point to Madrid with one of the best managers in the world, and the £200+ they spent on their squad in the last 2 years and how close did they get to Barca? in all 6 games they played this season?

IMO Valencia Young and Nani are the best 3 out and out wingers in the EPL currently so him coming in means we have rotation between those 3 thus making the squad stronger

I am also not a fan that expects us to go out an win everything every year, challenge for the league, 1/4 of CL and 1/4 of the F.A. cup would be a very successful season if you look at the other teams around us
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
Dimitar
Jun 8 2011, 08:12 PM
^ Correct.

Re: us changing tactics in Europe. That is the case because we can't hold our on in the centre of the park and we need the workers out wide to aid that. If we had Barcelona's midfield we would play Nani out wide and not Park for instance :lol: We need an out and out DM for Europe, Hargreaves was very successful in Europe for us when he played the season we won it. Hopefully Jones can buy that guy if needed too. Add someone like Banega or Modric to that and you have a midfield that can compete with Barcelona.
yet when we won the CL with Hargo he came into the side when we played Carrick and Scholes as our main 2 CM, surely this change of personal would be a change of tactic? considering at that time Carrick and Scholes were possibly the best CM pairing at holding onto the ball
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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Monty
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Well you have the DM (Hargreaves) and then the two ball players (Scholes and Carrick). Without Hargreaves we have the ball players but we need the DM (AND and improvement on the ball players)

So we could have a good CM of - CArrick Hargo Scholes
Now we should be looking at - Carrick DM Modric.
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Jeffers
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Ginger Prince
but you just said we changed tactic cos we couldnt hold the ball with our CM, yet when we had 2 that could, Scholes and Carrick, we still changed the system from 442 to 451 and Park still played wide.

In Europe we will play the defensive way no matter which players we have in the squad

I understand what you are saying about the DM but again we hadnt struggled against any side in the CL until Barca. So this improved player is only needed for the Barca games?
"I don't play against a particular team. I play against the idea of losing." - Cantona
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Monty
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Park didn't play in that final! We change the wide players to compensate for the lack of cover through the centre, we didnt need that when we have Hargreaves playing.
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