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Cultural difference?
Topic Started: May 30 2011, 11:50 AM (122 Views)
player#1
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Lord of the Ring-pieces
http://www.guillembalague.com/blog.php

There's a cracking 3 part debate on Guillem Balague's website between he and Paul Hayward about the differences between British and Spanish footballing cultures. It looks to be a relevant topic at the moment in the aftermath of Saturday night's game.

As Spain are currently World and European Champions and Barcelona have been very successful in recent years, is there any aspects of their footballing culture that others should try and adopt to bring success and style to their game?
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manu22
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Double post
Edited by manu22, May 30 2011, 12:13 PM.
Rivaldo greatest player in my time
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manu22
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No really. I don't read too much into this as Barca are an exception and only cone along once in a lifetime. They have a great academy and philosophy but this doesn't mean it can be done by everyone
Rivaldo greatest player in my time
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Monty
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I'm a naughty boy
I've only just skimme the articles...

The first part re diving and cheating etc shouldn't be adopted by anyone. It's a pathetic aspect of the game and it can ruin the spectacle for a lot of supporters. It certainly did that in the Clasico semi final. They don;t do it ALL the timbe we e I know that, but in the times they do it, think of the minutes they are wasting and the chances they are given up to keep the ball and try create more chances. If Busquets played for United and did that he'd embarress me.

The second part about referees and players complaining to them. Well maybe we should adpot a culture from another sport - rugby.

3rd part. About the technical development of players. I think that is changing in England but it will be a few years yet before we see the benefit of it. But the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Morrisson are a few of the talented technical players coming through at the moment.

I think there was a point aswell about ownership...A lot of clubs in Spain under their current ownerships are running serious risks of going bankrupt (Hercules just announced it) and they often struggle to pay their wages. lI bet the players and fans would like a team to support and to get paid - and if that means foreign owners then go ahead.
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player#1
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Lord of the Ring-pieces
Dimitar
May 30 2011, 12:15 PM
I've only just skimme the articles...

The first part re diving and cheating etc shouldn't be adopted by anyone. It's a pathetic aspect of the game and it can ruin the spectacle for a lot of supporters. It certainly did that in the Clasico semi final. They don;t do it ALL the timbe we e I know that, but in the times they do it, think of the minutes they are wasting and the chances they are given up to keep the ball and try create more chances. If Busquets played for United and did that he'd embarress me.

The second part about referees and players complaining to them. Well maybe we should adpot a culture from another sport - rugby.

3rd part. About the technical development of players. I think that is changing in England but it will be a few years yet before we see the benefit of it. But the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Morrisson are a few of the talented technical players coming through at the moment.

I think there was a point aswell about ownership...A lot of clubs in Spain under their current ownerships are running serious risks of going bankrupt (Hercules just announced it) and they often struggle to pay their wages. lI bet the players and fans would like a team to support and to get paid - and if that means foreign owners then go ahead.
As regards the diving and feigning of injury. From my point of view, yeah I wish it wouldn't go on. However, I think the contrast made there is that some cultures view it differently. In Latin culture there's a section of admiration for the chancer or rogue who pulls a fast one. In England this is seen as cheating etc. Also, I'd like to point out that it's a universal problem and although it's lambasted in England as opposed to in Spain, it still goes on in every league. Therefore, those who look to critisize Busquets(and they are right to do so) should remember that they have the likes of Nani and C.Ronaldo before him in the United squad. Drogba is in the Chelsea squad and Suarez embodies the Latin rogue diving in the Liverpool squad. Steven Gerrard, a senior English international, claimed that diving disgusted him and then went on to become as adept as Pipo Inzaghi at throwing himself down.

That's an excellent point about Rugby. Football should take the same approach as referees in Rugby. They take no lip and have a clear communication of decisions to the team. Nobody talks back to Rugby refs as it's just accepted that they can't.

As regards technical development, I think your point is slightly optimistic. Wilshire is a very promising midfielder of a certain type, that England very rarely produce. He's made it through at Arsenal as a result of the philosophy of Arsene Wenger and I would say in spite of the English philosophy on midfielders. Ramsey is a very decent player but as a result of his injury we don't really know how good he can be. Is that Ravel Morrison you're talking about? I just think there still isn't enough of these players. Also, an English obsession with architypal physiques for certain positions doesn't lend to having technically excellent players. More emphasis is on a right midfielder being fast rather than being able to pass the ball or pick a good pass. Ergo you end up with eunuchs like Theo Walcott and Ashley Young, headless guys with pace, playing in wide areas. Then the usual big strong, centre-halves and centre forwards and a midfielder with "a good engine". The likes of Kevin Davies, Scott Parker and Darren Fletcher are applauded in England and receive too much praise in my opinion.

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Monty
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I don't really think it matters how it is viewed. It shouldn't really be part of football. I get your point about them "loving a rogue" or whatever but where is the place for that on the pitch? There shouldn't be one.

There isn't a lot around yeah. But there are quite a view (Oxlade-Chamberlain, James McCarthy and Jonjo Shelvey to name three more) and it is definitely a growing trend that more players in the youth levels of the English game are developing very well technically, and I think we will see the fruits of that within the next 5 or so years.
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manu22
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player#1
May 30 2011, 01:09 PM
Dimitar
May 30 2011, 12:15 PM
I've only just skimme the articles...

The first part re diving and cheating etc shouldn't be adopted by anyone. It's a pathetic aspect of the game and it can ruin the spectacle for a lot of supporters. It certainly did that in the Clasico semi final. They don;t do it ALL the timbe we e I know that, but in the times they do it, think of the minutes they are wasting and the chances they are given up to keep the ball and try create more chances. If Busquets played for United and did that he'd embarress me.

The second part about referees and players complaining to them. Well maybe we should adpot a culture from another sport - rugby.

3rd part. About the technical development of players. I think that is changing in England but it will be a few years yet before we see the benefit of it. But the likes of Wilshere, Ramsey, Morrisson are a few of the talented technical players coming through at the moment.

I think there was a point aswell about ownership...A lot of clubs in Spain under their current ownerships are running serious risks of going bankrupt (Hercules just announced it) and they often struggle to pay their wages. lI bet the players and fans would like a team to support and to get paid - and if that means foreign owners then go ahead.
As regards the diving and feigning of injury. From my point of view, yeah I wish it wouldn't go on. However, I think the contrast made there is that some cultures view it differently. In Latin culture there's a section of admiration for the chancer or rogue who pulls a fast one. In England this is seen as cheating etc. Also, I'd like to point out that it's a universal problem and although it's lambasted in England as opposed to in Spain, it still goes on in every league. Therefore, those who look to critisize Busquets(and they are right to do so) should remember that they have the likes of Nani and C.Ronaldo before him in the United squad. Drogba is in the Chelsea squad and Suarez embodies the Latin rogue diving in the Liverpool squad. Steven Gerrard, a senior English international, claimed that diving disgusted him and then went on to become as adept as Pipo Inzaghi at throwing himself down.

That's an excellent point about Rugby. Football should take the same approach as referees in Rugby. They take no lip and have a clear communication of decisions to the team. Nobody talks back to Rugby refs as it's just accepted that they can't.

As regards technical development, I think your point is slightly optimistic. Wilshire is a very promising midfielder of a certain type, that England very rarely produce. He's made it through at Arsenal as a result of the philosophy of Arsene Wenger and I would say in spite of the English philosophy on midfielders. Ramsey is a very decent player but as a result of his injury we don't really know how good he can be. Is that Ravel Morrison you're talking about? I just think there still isn't enough of these players. Also, an English obsession with architypal physiques for certain positions doesn't lend to having technically excellent players. More emphasis is on a right midfielder being fast rather than being able to pass the ball or pick a good pass. Ergo you end up with eunuchs like Theo Walcott and Ashley Young, headless guys with pace, playing in wide areas. Then the usual big strong, centre-halves and centre forwards and a midfielder with "a good engine". The likes of Kevin Davies, Scott Parker and Darren Fletcher are applauded in England and receive too much praise in my opinion.

Sorry but ashley Young isnt headless he has more to his game than that. He's deff not the complet article but he's more than your typical winger
Rivaldo greatest player in my time
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player#1
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Lord of the Ring-pieces
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May 30 2011, 01:23 PM
I don't really think it matters how it is viewed. It shouldn't really be part of football. I get your point about them "loving a rogue" or whatever but where is the place for that on the pitch? There shouldn't be one.

There isn't a lot around yeah. But there are quite a view (Oxlade-Chamberlain, James McCarthy and Jonjo Shelvey to name three more) and it is definitely a growing trend that more players in the youth levels of the English game are developing very well technically, and I think we will see the fruits of that within the next 5 or so years.
I agree with you. I'm not in favour of it but what I'm saying is in England it's a HUGE deal. I don't like to see Busquets play act but I would critisise him alot more if he was in the mould of a Kevin Nolan and was technically average and over physical.

Not to go off point but I think you are clutching at straws with James McCarthy and Jonjo Shelvey. Shelvey looks awkward enough and McCarthy doesn't really look for the ball and is distinctly "Home Nations" in his style.

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