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Managers
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Topic Started: Oct 23 2011, 07:43 PM (753 Views)
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ZeeZoo
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Oct 24 2011, 09:35 PM
Post #31
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- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:29 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:22 PM
Arsene Wenger is a top coach, one of the best there has ever been. Been able to produce a team challenging for honours year in, year out despite being on a tight budget. His ability to spot & nurture talent is second only to Ferguson. Incredibly tactically aware, great man-management & a genius. He is a top, top manager. I'm sorry but those who don't realise that he belongs up there with the Fergusons and Lippis are not looking at the big picture.
The last few seasons have badly damaged his reputation (right so as well tbh) because of the was he has handled certain things - transfers in particular, his apparent non-existant defensive training and constantly making the same mistakes. Transfer issues were a matter of finances something which I believe Wenger is not control of and I believe is restricted. Training? I'm sure there is plenty of defensive training, where did that rumour emerge? Same mistakes? What are those?
Granted he has made mistakes by not signing certain players and by signing certain players, the latter of which is all down to him, but considering the environment in which he has to work in I'd say "Le Prof" has done an extremely good & efficient job.
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ZeeZoo
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Oct 24 2011, 09:36 PM
Post #32
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In fact, his signings over the past few years have been f*cking dire.
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Monty
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Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
Post #33
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- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:35 PM
- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:29 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:22 PM
Arsene Wenger is a top coach, one of the best there has ever been. Been able to produce a team challenging for honours year in, year out despite being on a tight budget. His ability to spot & nurture talent is second only to Ferguson. Incredibly tactically aware, great man-management & a genius. He is a top, top manager. I'm sorry but those who don't realise that he belongs up there with the Fergusons and Lippis are not looking at the big picture.
The last few seasons have badly damaged his reputation (right so as well tbh) because of the was he has handled certain things - transfers in particular, his apparent non-existant defensive training and constantly making the same mistakes.
Transfer issues were a matter of finances something which I believe Wenger is not control of and I believe is restricted. Training? I'm sure there is plenty of defensive training, where did that rumour emerge? Same mistakes? What are those? Granted he has made mistakes by not signing certain players and by signing certain players, the latter of which is all down to him, but considering the environment in which he has to work in I'd say "Le Prof" has done an extremely good & efficient job. Transfers out not transfer in. He waited to the last week of the Summer to make a move after delaying Nasri and Cesc transfers all Summer which were inevitable.
There is no rumours re training. But watching them play it is quite clear that something is very wrong with the way they set up their team defensively. They conceded more goals than any other team from set-pieces frm example. They never improved that area all season and that suggests bad management. Their players pick up more muscle injuries than any other team in the league - that is down to training again. Players are being rushed back from injuries and their fitness arebeing wrong risked (Vermaelen & Wilshere)
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UwesGrandad
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Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
Post #34
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El Mago
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- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:26 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:08 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 08:40 PM
Mancini appears to be a good manager but while he's at City he'll never show he can achieve what Wenger has achieved because players are handed to him on a plate and money isn't an issue. Last year City were distinctly average, finishing one spot above Wenger's team - a team that struggled badly at the end of the season. So they just went out and threw more money around. Now they're looking much better. Wenger doesn't have that luxury, and I don't really know what Mancini would achieve in this league without it because I'm not familiar with his other managerial roles. People disrespect Wenger because he's got a lot wrong lately but Arsene has been about more than just the team, he's also had a big hand in helping to push Arsenal on financially. Mancini doesn't have to worry about any of that, and neither do City. He still has to do a job and so far he's doing it well domestically but comparing Mancini to Wenger is never going to work. It's like comparing a man who's been given a brand new house to decorate with a man who built his house from scratch (but now can't see it needs a new roof  )
I'm not saying Wenger is rubbish, far from it but he has only won 7 major trophies in 24 years yet is regarded as a genius by most. Some talk like he has taken Arsenal from Non-league to CL but he hasn't. Arsenal were a top side when he took over, they are still a top side today so he has merely done what was expected of him, just like Mancini has at City.
Lol, Mancini has a very bit to go before he can be held in the same view as Wenger. "Merely done what was expected of him"????????? Lmfao, he's been given no money yet he's still been able to keep Arsenal in the top 4 for the last 15 years whilst breaking United's dominance AND keeping in with the tradition of the club which is extremely, extremely hard to achieve. The only issue I have with Wenger is his lack of European success which I will not hold against him considering he has operated on a tight budget for the majority of his career. So Mancini has never worked within financial constraints???
No-one siad they were equal but Wenger is 62, Mancini is 46....thats like comparing Giggs with Cleverly imo.
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Monty
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Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
Post #35
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I'm a naughty boy
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- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:36 PM
In fact, his signings over the past few years have been f*cking dire. Missed out on Smalling & Jones and there was no reason whatsoever they should not have signed Mata in the Summer.
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stacie
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Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
Post #36
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- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:34 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 09:13 PM
No one's suggesting Wenger took Arsenal from non-league to CL. Did people really expect Arsenal to achieve what they did under Wenger when he took over? I don't think Wenger 'merely did what was expected' at all but you're a hell of a lot older than me so you may know better.
If the expectations are the same, the reasons for them will be very different.
but you are suggesting he built his house from scratch....which is very far from fact tbf. In 9 years and 460 games George Graham won 6 major trophies (1986-95) In 848 games Wenger has won 7 major trophies over 14 years (1996-present). It was a decent house before he got there tbf. Wenger plays 'nice' but at times ineffective football and has had money to spend but not done so even when it has been glaringly obvious he should have. Not really the actions of an astute manager imo.
I'm not referring at all to 'nice football' or to trophies. Everything that is at Arsenal has his stamp on it, is what I'm saying. He's been there so long he's had to start, many times, again and try to rebuild. He's struggled badly recently, admittedly. Mancini is at the stage where he's merely decorating.
Everything Mancini has to give to win City the title, Wenger's already given and then some, in completely different circumstances, so it's going to be difficult to make comparisons.
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ZeeZoo
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Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
Post #37
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- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:26 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:08 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 08:40 PM
Mancini appears to be a good manager but while he's at City he'll never show he can achieve what Wenger has achieved because players are handed to him on a plate and money isn't an issue. Last year City were distinctly average, finishing one spot above Wenger's team - a team that struggled badly at the end of the season. So they just went out and threw more money around. Now they're looking much better. Wenger doesn't have that luxury, and I don't really know what Mancini would achieve in this league without it because I'm not familiar with his other managerial roles. People disrespect Wenger because he's got a lot wrong lately but Arsene has been about more than just the team, he's also had a big hand in helping to push Arsenal on financially. Mancini doesn't have to worry about any of that, and neither do City. He still has to do a job and so far he's doing it well domestically but comparing Mancini to Wenger is never going to work. It's like comparing a man who's been given a brand new house to decorate with a man who built his house from scratch (but now can't see it needs a new roof  )
I'm not saying Wenger is rubbish, far from it but he has only won 7 major trophies in 24 years yet is regarded as a genius by most. Some talk like he has taken Arsenal from Non-league to CL but he hasn't. Arsenal were a top side when he took over, they are still a top side today so he has merely done what was expected of him, just like Mancini has at City.
Lol, Mancini has a very bit to go before he can be held in the same view as Wenger. "Merely done what was expected of him"????????? Lmfao, he's been given no money yet he's still been able to keep Arsenal in the top 4 for the last 15 years whilst breaking United's dominance AND keeping in with the tradition of the club which is extremely, extremely hard to achieve. The only issue I have with Wenger is his lack of European success which I will not hold against him considering he has operated on a tight budget for the majority of his career.
So Mancini has never worked within financial constraints??? No-one siad they were equal but Wenger is 62, Mancini is 46....thats like comparing Giggs with Cleverly imo. Lol, Roberto's financial constraints have never ever been as near as what Arsene is going through at the moment.
You were the one doing the comparing.
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stacie
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Oct 24 2011, 09:48 PM
Post #38
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- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:36 PM
In fact, his signings over the past few years have been f*cking dire.
Missed out on Smalling & Jones and there was no reason whatsoever they should not have signed Mata in the Summer. But... Smalling and Jones especially didn't want to go to Arsenal. Is that really missing out?
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flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around
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Monty
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Oct 24 2011, 09:50 PM
Post #39
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I'm a naughty boy
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- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 09:48 PM
- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:36 PM
In fact, his signings over the past few years have been f*cking dire.
Missed out on Smalling & Jones and there was no reason whatsoever they should not have signed Mata in the Summer.
But... Smalling and Jones especially didn't want to go to Arsenal. Is that really missing out? Well I do believe he was very slow in his movement for both players. For example his bid for Jones only came in after United had bid as far as I know.
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UwesGrandad
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Oct 24 2011, 09:50 PM
Post #40
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El Mago
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- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:26 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:08 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 08:40 PM
Mancini appears to be a good manager but while he's at City he'll never show he can achieve what Wenger has achieved because players are handed to him on a plate and money isn't an issue. Last year City were distinctly average, finishing one spot above Wenger's team - a team that struggled badly at the end of the season. So they just went out and threw more money around. Now they're looking much better. Wenger doesn't have that luxury, and I don't really know what Mancini would achieve in this league without it because I'm not familiar with his other managerial roles. People disrespect Wenger because he's got a lot wrong lately but Arsene has been about more than just the team, he's also had a big hand in helping to push Arsenal on financially. Mancini doesn't have to worry about any of that, and neither do City. He still has to do a job and so far he's doing it well domestically but comparing Mancini to Wenger is never going to work. It's like comparing a man who's been given a brand new house to decorate with a man who built his house from scratch (but now can't see it needs a new roof  )
I'm not saying Wenger is rubbish, far from it but he has only won 7 major trophies in 24 years yet is regarded as a genius by most. Some talk like he has taken Arsenal from Non-league to CL but he hasn't. Arsenal were a top side when he took over, they are still a top side today so he has merely done what was expected of him, just like Mancini has at City.
Lol, Mancini has a very bit to go before he can be held in the same view as Wenger. "Merely done what was expected of him"????????? Lmfao, he's been given no money yet he's still been able to keep Arsenal in the top 4 for the last 15 years whilst breaking United's dominance AND keeping in with the tradition of the club which is extremely, extremely hard to achieve. The only issue I have with Wenger is his lack of European success which I will not hold against him considering he has operated on a tight budget for the majority of his career.
So Mancini has never worked within financial constraints??? No-one siad they were equal but Wenger is 62, Mancini is 46....thats like comparing Giggs with Cleverly imo.
Lol, Roberto's financial constraints have never ever been as near as what Arsene is going through at the moment. You were the one doing the comparing. Are you related to anyone else on this forum or do you start all your posts lol??? 
Think you've missed the point tbf mate.
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Will be keeping Cech in my pocket for the next 3 months. Thanks Pedro
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stacie
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Oct 24 2011, 09:51 PM
Post #41
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He has been slow but I'm sorry, you don't miss out on players who only had their eye on one club.
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flak and gary love stacie and weep sorrowful tears when she's not around
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ZeeZoo
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Oct 24 2011, 09:54 PM
Post #42
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- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:50 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:26 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:08 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 08:40 PM
Mancini appears to be a good manager but while he's at City he'll never show he can achieve what Wenger has achieved because players are handed to him on a plate and money isn't an issue. Last year City were distinctly average, finishing one spot above Wenger's team - a team that struggled badly at the end of the season. So they just went out and threw more money around. Now they're looking much better. Wenger doesn't have that luxury, and I don't really know what Mancini would achieve in this league without it because I'm not familiar with his other managerial roles. People disrespect Wenger because he's got a lot wrong lately but Arsene has been about more than just the team, he's also had a big hand in helping to push Arsenal on financially. Mancini doesn't have to worry about any of that, and neither do City. He still has to do a job and so far he's doing it well domestically but comparing Mancini to Wenger is never going to work. It's like comparing a man who's been given a brand new house to decorate with a man who built his house from scratch (but now can't see it needs a new roof  )
I'm not saying Wenger is rubbish, far from it but he has only won 7 major trophies in 24 years yet is regarded as a genius by most. Some talk like he has taken Arsenal from Non-league to CL but he hasn't. Arsenal were a top side when he took over, they are still a top side today so he has merely done what was expected of him, just like Mancini has at City.
Lol, Mancini has a very bit to go before he can be held in the same view as Wenger. "Merely done what was expected of him"????????? Lmfao, he's been given no money yet he's still been able to keep Arsenal in the top 4 for the last 15 years whilst breaking United's dominance AND keeping in with the tradition of the club which is extremely, extremely hard to achieve. The only issue I have with Wenger is his lack of European success which I will not hold against him considering he has operated on a tight budget for the majority of his career.
So Mancini has never worked within financial constraints??? No-one siad they were equal but Wenger is 62, Mancini is 46....thats like comparing Giggs with Cleverly imo.
Lol, Roberto's financial constraints have never ever been as near as what Arsene is going through at the moment. You were the one doing the comparing.
Are you related to anyone else on this forum or do you start all your posts lol???  Think you've missed the point tbf mate. Lol is my way of saying "You're chatting s**t but I'm trying to make an effort on this forum so I'll be friendly".
What's the point then? You're saying Wenger is Giggs and Mancini is CleverlEy so there is no point in comparing them yet you are the one comparing. What's not to get?
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UwesGrandad
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Oct 24 2011, 09:56 PM
Post #43
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El Mago
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- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 09:47 PM
- UwesGrandad
- Oct 24 2011, 09:34 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 09:13 PM
No one's suggesting Wenger took Arsenal from non-league to CL. Did people really expect Arsenal to achieve what they did under Wenger when he took over? I don't think Wenger 'merely did what was expected' at all but you're a hell of a lot older than me so you may know better.
If the expectations are the same, the reasons for them will be very different.
but you are suggesting he built his house from scratch....which is very far from fact tbf. In 9 years and 460 games George Graham won 6 major trophies (1986-95) In 848 games Wenger has won 7 major trophies over 14 years (1996-present). It was a decent house before he got there tbf. Wenger plays 'nice' but at times ineffective football and has had money to spend but not done so even when it has been glaringly obvious he should have. Not really the actions of an astute manager imo.
 I'm not referring at all to 'nice football' or to trophies. Everything that is at Arsenal has his stamp on it, is what I'm saying. He's been there so long he's had to start, many times, again and try to rebuild. He's struggled badly recently, admittedly. Mancini is at the stage where he's merely decorating. Everything Mancini has to give to win City the title, Wenger's already given and then some, in completely different circumstances, so it's going to be difficult to make comparisons. Sorry Stacie, i've carried some of this over from the City United matchday thread which has confused the point a little.
My original point was Mancini was being described as average because he hadn't done well in the CL, which on that basis didn't make him much worse than Wenger as he'd never won it either, hence where the partial comparison came from.
If you have a spare week you can read through it
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Will be keeping Cech in my pocket for the next 3 months. Thanks Pedro
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thefieldsofanfieldroad
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Oct 24 2011, 09:58 PM
Post #44
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“The trouble with referees is that they know the rules, but they do not know the game.”
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regarding wengers recent transfer policy (this summer). he had all summer to line up replacements for nasri and fabregas because of his dilly dallying. arteta and yossi are good players but nowhere near that calibur.
the thing that baffles me more is why he didnt go all out for cahill to sort the defence out but bought that useless lam post mertersaker.
all dodgy dealings imo
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EL.I.AM LEGEND
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Oct 24 2011, 09:59 PM
Post #45
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- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:50 PM
- stacie
- Oct 24 2011, 09:48 PM
- Dimitar
- Oct 24 2011, 09:40 PM
- ZeeZoo
- Oct 24 2011, 09:36 PM
In fact, his signings over the past few years have been f*cking dire.
Missed out on Smalling & Jones and there was no reason whatsoever they should not have signed Mata in the Summer.
But... Smalling and Jones especially didn't want to go to Arsenal. Is that really missing out?
Well I do believe he was very slow in his movement for both players. For example his bid for Jones only came in after United had bid as far as I know. Arsenal made an offer for Jones in the transfer window before apparently. £9 million was rumoured.
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