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Has Obama been a failure?
Topic Started: Nov 4 2012, 08:18 PM (1,986 Views)
treble
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The Chosen Juan
As the US elections draw near I thought this might be a good time to review Obama's first term as president.

I don't claim to know everything about what he has or hasn't delivered on in relation to his promises and idealistic ambitions, but on those issues (mostly foreign policy) that I am interested in, he's been nothing more than a coward and a warmonger. I know these are strong statements but his handling of the middle-east and the significant increase in drone led killings of thousands of people in other countries (which is brushed under the carpet without a care in the world) means he is yet another politician who gave people new hope but ended up with his hands stained in blood. Also, the total lack of back-bone in the middle-east peace process is another 4 years wasted. I remember back in 2008, I believed in his eloquent speeches and felt this was a man of conviction. Now I feel all that smooth talking was just that, smooth talking but little substance.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive, I understand how politics works. And politics is politics. But that's not my criticism of Obama. I wouldn't be making a thread like this about G.W. Bush bcos we all knew what he stood for. If anything, he set out to deliver on exactly what he promised, even if I disagreed with every aspect of it. But with Obama, he promised something different, and ended up showing himself to be a man who lacks conviction or backbone, and a man who is willing to sell his principles at the drop of a hat to stay in office.

By coincidence a program on BBC2 now called "Obama: What happened to hope?"
Edited by treble, Nov 4 2012, 08:32 PM.
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5euros
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Bradley
i know hes been accused in some parts as being a bit of a soft ass
NANI ARE YOU OK, ARE YOU OK NANI, NANI ARE YOU OK, ARE YOU OK NANI

YOUVE BEEN HIT BY, YOUVE BEEN STRUCK BY A SMOOTH CARRAGHER
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redDevilMoe
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Unwashed Pimple
Still not sure. There is no doubt he has been a pussy, caving in on every single policy proposal to a party that had almost no power. But he has stabilized the US economy and has brought a sense of rational calm to their foreign policy. He is the lesser of two evils right now, but not the president he promised to be (im not interested in what people where expecting).

Its such a shame though. If he just had a backbone he could have been remembered for being more than just the first black president.
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Plonker
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Oracle of Truth.
He pushed through a very controversial healthcare plan for example, he's far from the pussy you make him out to be.
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redDevilMoe
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Unwashed Pimple
He pushed through the healthcare plan because it was one of, if not the biggest campaign promise he made. But look closely and you'll see it wasnt a triumph.Best proof was he got rid of the public option to try and gain support across the aisle, which failed.

In fact the health care debate is the best example of Obamas pussyness. Constant concessions to a party that wanted to see how far they can push him with no intention of coming to a compromise.

He either doesnt really care about these issues or he is the worlds worst negotiator.
Edited by redDevilMoe, Nov 8 2012, 12:14 AM.
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treble
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The Chosen Juan
That is spot on, certainly in terms of how I feel about him.
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treble
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The Chosen Juan
What you have to consider is just how much people were against G.W. Bush including much of public, domestic and international opinion. And yet he ignored all and pushed through everything he wanted. There's none of that with Obama. Maybe it's a "democrat" mentallity I'm not sure.
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Stryke
Star of Brokeback Mountain
The republicans have control of the House of Representatives, which is one of the main government bodies, so that has been a factor as they have a lot of power to block democrat proposals.
Edited by Stryke, Nov 12 2012, 04:56 PM.
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treble
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The Chosen Juan
That's quite routine isn't it? Did democrats have control of the House while Bush was president...and caved in to all his demands? I might be wrong but iirc? :S
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Stryke
Star of Brokeback Mountain
Dunno, but it has been a contributing factor. There is more partisanship than usual from what I've noticed. Plus the things Obama is trying to push through go against a lot of deeply held fears, i.e. Healthcare, etc.

It's obviously not an impossible job, but I don't envy him. Huge changes are needed in a lot of areas at the same time as a massive recession, and the changes often go against the national culture. He's going to struggle to get the support needed to make the change but will be villified as ineffective in return.
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redDevilMoe
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From 2008 until 2010 the Democrats had the majority in the house and the senate (1 away from a super majority in the senate). Which meant that the democrats could create a law in the house, pass it in the senate and sign it in the oval office with only 1 republican vote needed throughout the process.

They bottled it, caved into the republicans that were just being obstructionist and were demonised for it. They will never learn.
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redDevilMoe
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Stryke
Nov 13 2012, 04:14 AM
Huge changes are needed in a lot of areas at the same time as a massive recession, and the changes often go against the national culture. He's going to struggle to get the support needed to make the change but will be villified as ineffective in return.
You do know he was elected based on the promise of change. In fact the majority of the country demanded it. Unless he ends a civil war (Lincoln), completely reverses a depression (FDR), goes to the moon (JFK) or repetitively owns Soviet Russia (Reagen) he will always be vilified by his opponents.

In 50 years people will wonder why Obama didnt bring the change the country was begging for, and our historians will say it was because he was a pussy.
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Stryke
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redDevilMoe
Nov 14 2012, 02:36 PM
Stryke
Nov 13 2012, 04:14 AM
Huge changes are needed in a lot of areas at the same time as a massive recession, and the changes often go against the national culture. He's going to struggle to get the support needed to make the change but will be villified as ineffective in return.
You do know he was elected based on the promise of change. In fact the majority of the country demanded it. Unless he ends a civil war (Lincoln), completely reverses a depression (FDR), goes to the moon (JFK) or repetitively owns Soviet Russia (Reagen) he will always be vilified by his opponents.

In 50 years people will wonder why Obama didnt bring the change the country was begging for, and our historians will say it was because he was a pussy.
Not exactly an overwhelming majority was it, 52.9%. You see the landslide victories via the electoral college method but the actual popular vote rarely shows anything even close to that much of a difference. In addition a vote for Obama doesn't mean a "demand for change", it just means you prefer them to the other guy, a distinctly underwhelming one in that particular year. On top of that there is a heavy trend towards racial voting which increases the chance of a vote for him not necessarily being a demand for change.

Relating back to the resistance from other elements of government, the split in power is to the extent that multiple states (my own included), as well as coming close regarding the entire federal government, actually SHUT DOWN. I'm not talking about politicians taking a day off. I'm talking about a huge array of non essential services actually ceasing for nearly three weeks. Thats what happens when the legislature is under the control of the other party.

Some of you seem to have a strangely optimistic opinion about the US political system and national culture. :lol:
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redDevilMoe
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Quote:
 
Not exactly an overwhelming majority was it, 52.9%. You see the landslide victories via the electoral college method but the actual popular vote rarely shows anything even close to that much of a difference. In addition a vote for Obama doesn't mean a "demand for change", it just means you prefer them to the other guy, a distinctly underwhelming one in that particular year. On top of that there is a heavy trend towards racial voting which increases the chance of a vote for him not necessarily being a demand for change.


A (very) brief search on google for the actual exit polls from november 2008 eludes me so unfortunately I dont have any facts to present only my word. But on the economy, foreign policy and energy Obama was polling in the 60's. So claiming that he won the minorities, whilst true, doesnt paint the whole picture. He won on policy as much as race, and those policies elevated the democratic party to wins all across the country. It may not have been unanimous (is any election ever), but those that voted for him wanted him to deliver on his campaign promises. Like the latinos, the 18-34s, the blue collar workers, the suburban voters and the catholics. All major demo's that cant be put down to skin tone.

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Relating back to the resistance from other elements of government, the split in power is to the extent that multiple states (my own included), as well as coming close regarding the entire federal government, actually SHUT DOWN. I'm not talking about politicians taking a day off. I'm talking about a huge array of non essential services actually ceasing for nearly three weeks. Thats what happens when the legislature is under the control of the other party.


No thats what happens when you have an obstructionist party playing chicken against a party with no balls. The democrats always cave, its only a question of how much pressure.
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Plonker
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Oracle of Truth.
redDevilMoe
Nov 14 2012, 02:36 PM
Stryke
Nov 13 2012, 04:14 AM
Huge changes are needed in a lot of areas at the same time as a massive recession, and the changes often go against the national culture. He's going to struggle to get the support needed to make the change but will be villified as ineffective in return.
You do know he was elected based on the promise of change. In fact the majority of the country demanded it. Unless he ends a civil war (Lincoln), completely reverses a depression (FDR), goes to the moon (JFK) or repetitively owns Soviet Russia (Reagen) he will always be vilified by his opponents.

In 50 years people will wonder why Obama didnt bring the change the country was begging for, and our historians will say it was because he was a pussy.
He killed the guy responsible for the biggest attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor and during his time Sadam was caught and put down like a straying dog. That's enough to warrant a place in history books and is far from the pussy image you think he has. :lol:
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