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Topic Started: Feb 21 2015, 04:05 PM (6,094 Views)
FLOPP'D
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The King in the North
Jimmymac™
Feb 21 2015, 05:50 PM
https://vine.co/v/OQqFgtVvVDA

Disgusting tackle and a stupid reaction, should really both have been sent off
Bumping for reference
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John Henry April 2011
 
Success is winning championships. It is nothing less than that. And when you win a championship – and we will – success isn't measured or accomplished by winning once
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paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 01:14 PM
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Feb 23 2015, 12:57 PM
paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 12:51 PM
The only person 'tackling' is Matic though?
Ok, but how then would you describe the incident? The fact that Barnes' studs were firmly planted half way up Matic's standing leg is not disputed; even given that he didn't intend to do it (probably), it was dangerous at best.

If a player can be red carded for a studs up challenge that doesn't even make contact, how can a 'coming together' that results in studs half way up his standing leg be deemed as anything else but dangerous play?
I'd describe it as a pass. Matic tried to tackle extremely late, didn't get any of the ball but got the follow through because he was late.

He was very lucky not to be hurt, but I'd think of it as more of a ball to hand, than hand to ball situation if you get me.
I wouldn't disagree, but surely the key to this is whether Barnes's actions were dangerous or not?

The analogy that I would make is when a player is punished for a late tackle when he has simply been beaten for pace or skill. In those circumstances, a player rarely intends to commit a foul, rather he is simply beaten by the pace or skill of the victim, but he still receives a yellow card because it is deemed as potentially dangerous or as lack of judgement that could result in injury.

I do have sympathy for players in these circumstances because the game is so quick and tough tackles (that are clean) are generally applauded. You made the point last week that Rooney was right to dive in the area because if he hadn't, he might have been fouled and might have been hurt as a result. In this instance, Matic was fouled and was incredibly fortunate not to be seriously hurt. It doesn't excuse his reaction, but does as least question the referee's decision not to punish Barnes.

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FLOPP'D
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The King in the North
All he's doing it passing the ball though. It's like saying we should ban volleys because if someone comes in late they might take a dangerous karate kick. It doesn't compare with dangerous tackles that miss players.
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John Henry April 2011
 
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But aren't you contradiction your own argument from last week? In that instance, the keeper slid in to get the ball and you argued that Rooney was justified in diving because of what might have happened. In this instance, what might have happened did happen and yet you're suggesting that Barnes did nothing wrong?

I'm confused by your position in this given your view last week?
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I don't view a dangerous out of control slide the same way I view normal actions of passing or shooting.
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paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 01:37 PM
I don't view a dangerous out of control slide the same way I view normal actions of passing or shooting.
Are you therefore arguing that a keeper should never slide in to a loose ball irrespective of whether he get's the ball or misses the attacking player? Bear in mind that a keeper generally slides in with his body or hands and not his studded boot?

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FLOPP'D
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It has to be done for the defending team so you could never enforce a ban and not completely alter the sport. But if they get it wrong the attacking player shouldn't have to get hurt for it to be a foul
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John Henry April 2011
 
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paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 01:43 PM
But if they get it wrong the attacking player shouldn't have to get hurt for it to be a foul
That sentence is the source of my confusion! What if a player does get hurt and it still isn't given as a foul??

Whatever his intentions, Barnes did get it wrong - how else can you describe his studs being planted half way up Matic's leg?

Dangerous actions don't have to be intentional or contrived. Accidental actions can still be dangerous, as this incident clearly illustrates.
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It's a contact sport, you can get hurt without it being a foul.

Barnes didn't get anything wrong. He attempted to pass the ball and did. Matic is the one who got his action wrong.

Lets say Costa shoots, a defender slides to block the shot but is late and instead of blocking the ball he takes Costa's follow through from the shot. Should Costa be sent off for kicking him? Of course not.
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paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 01:51 PM
It's a contact sport, you can get hurt without it being a foul.

Barnes didn't get anything wrong. He attempted to pass the ball and did. Matic is the one who got his action wrong.

Lets say Costa shoots, a defender slides to block the shot but is late and instead of blocking the ball he takes Costa's follow through from the shot. Should Costa be sent off for kicking him? Of course not.
This is my point.

I'm not confused by your analysis of this incident. I don't agree with you, but I get your argument.

Where I'm confused is that this week you're saying it's a contact sport . Whereas last week you were applauding a player for diving without being touched. Furthermore, in the example you gave at the end of the attached quoted post, you're saying that the player should not be punished, yet in the real life example (Rooney last week) you said the penalty (the punishment) was correct and yet in that example, there wasn't even any contact?

Surely you can see the contradiction?
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I don't see any contradiction. The two situations aren't the same at all.
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No FA retrospective action against Ashley Barnes for his challenge on Matic.
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mcfc1975
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paddypower
Feb 23 2015, 03:39 PM
No FA retrospective action against Ashley Barnes for his pass.
fixed :thumb:

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in this pic, barnes has already passed the ball, matic gets there late as the ball has already gone


imo, it is similar to when a defender is clearing the ball, an attacker comes across and tries to block it, getting the sole of his foot kicked in the process. the defender always gets the foul


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That will scupper any hope Chelsea had of getting Matic's red rescinded. If Barnes had been charged for dangerous play, it might have lent credence to Matic's response. Now that we know the FA don't regard the incident as dangerous play, Matic has no defence, I would suggest.
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Quote:
 
Ashley Barnes should have been sent off for his foul on Chelsea midfielder Nemanja Matic, believes former Premier League referee Dermot Gallagher.

Speaking to Sky Sports News HQ, Gallagher gave his opinion on the controversial incidents from an exciting weekend of Premier League action - including a number of decisions from Chelsea's 1-1 draw with Burnley.

Ashley Barnes on Nemanja Matic

WHAT HAPPENED: Burnley striker Barnes appeared to catch Matic just below the knee with a challenge during Saturday’s 1-1 draw at Stamford Bridge. The Chelsea midfielder was then sent off for his reaction as he pushed his opponent to the floor.

DERMOT'S VIEW: "On the replay, quite clearly, it was a red card. I think the referee saw it but I don’t think he recognised the severity of it. I was watching the game live and the commentator didn’t even recognise the severity of it. If you look at the reaction of the players, it’s only Matic that realises the seriousness of the tackle. He reacts, but the other players don’t. When you look at it without doubt it’s a very bad tackle, it’s a red card."

Matic’s reaction that saw him sent off

DERMOT'S VIEW: "Everybody in the country will be saying how unfortunate he (Matic) is. But everybody knows you can’t react like that. He’s reacted badly and he’s reacted violently towards his opponent, so the referee has sent him off. It is a red card for violent conduct."

Barnes foul on Branislav Ivanovic

Ashley Barnes appears to foul Branislav Ivanovic.
WHAT HAPPENED: Burnley striker Barnes appeared to catch Chelsea defender Ivanovic in an aerial challenge. Ivanovic rolled over twice before getting up in anger after realising that the referee was taking no action against him.

DERMOT'S VIEW: "I thought it warranted a yellow card. It was a reckless challenge. I didn’t think it was dangerous or seriously endangering the safety of an opponent. Therefore a yellow card was sufficient on this occasion."

Michael Kightly handball

Michael Kightly handball against Chelsea
WHAT HAPPENED: Ivanovic shoots from the edge of the area, but the ball hits Kightly’s outstretched arm after he turned his back to the Chelsea defender.

DERMOT'S VIEW: "I'm on the side of the referee here. Handball has got to be deliberate. Handball has become such an emotive subject, but I think on this occasion the balls hit at speed and it’s travelled a very short distance, Kightly’s turned away, for me I would say that there’s enough doubt not to give a penalty."

Diego Costa penalty appeal

Diego Costa
WHAT HAPPENED: Costa tumbles to the ground after Burnley captain Jason Shackell brings him down clumsily from behind. Again the referee Martin Atkinson turns down the appeals.

DERMOT'S VIEW: "For me it’s a penalty. If you make a challenge like that and you knock the player over you’ve got to get the ball, and without doubt he didn’t get the ball. He’s taken a risk, and he’s gotten away with it."
We've done the Matic incident to death, so I'll leave that one, but I agree with Gallagher on the others. I wouldn't have given the hand ball, but I would have given the fouls on Costa and Ivanovic.
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